tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7050183471078758937.post4131432989660970648..comments2023-03-23T07:20:54.170-04:00Comments on A CARBON Based Life: For Once, a Simple Sales Problem…Turamarth Elrandirhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08129383421613323047noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7050183471078758937.post-53885106842860408362014-05-13T09:25:04.753-04:002014-05-13T09:25:04.753-04:00I am the same way... EVE is the only MMO I have ev...I am the same way... EVE is the only MMO I have ever not only been able to get into, but enjoyed as deeply as this. I know CCP has to carefully balance the development for all playstyles...<br /><br />I personally hope they keep to the core vision of EVE as a game with these key elements;<br />(1) 'freedom' to play the game as you please (sandbox)<br />(2) you are 'never really SAFE anywhere' (open PvP)<br />(3) skills are not based on 'repetition' (RT skilling)<br />(4) changes are for the good of the whole game, not just one playstyle and the most important...<br />(5) "Loss is REAL" (everything is player made and destructible)<br /><br />With those Five Key Elements as unbreakable cornerstones of ALL gameplay in EVE, then they can focus, as CCP Seagull seems to be doing, on growth and changes that benefit each of the Five Prime Playstyles...<br />(1) Solo (defines itself)<br />(2) Casual (players with limited/constrained playtime)<br />(3) Small Gang (players who want a smaller social game)<br />(4) Large Gang (defines itself) and<br />(5) Player Empires, in EVE, Nullsec Coalition gameplay.<br /><br />This past week has defined those above 10 Key Points rather sharply for me. As long as all changes are ruled by the first 5 and benefit, without breaking, the last 5... then I think we have a real shot at continued growth for EVE Online.<br /><br />And thanx... I had been, as so many were, muddling along feeling like the 5 to 10% were all the nullseccers, you know... The Ebil Empires. But here it turns out, I am one... oh not one of the 'Enemy', but I guess I am one of the 5 to 10%... I am a social player, I am a content creator... I guess I'm just a Small Gang guy.Turamarth Elrandirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08129383421613323047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7050183471078758937.post-64315709125078473302014-05-13T01:50:18.808-04:002014-05-13T01:50:18.808-04:00Played WoW for years. Still log in from time to ti...Played WoW for years. Still log in from time to time, but not often. Tried quite a few other games, too, mainstream and not. EVE is my only hope =). <br /><br />It was kind of sad watching Blizzard trying to be all things to all people. They polished and polished and polished, and worked all these rough edges, systematically tracking down and smoothing out the smallest bumps. Anything that could potentially push this group away or that group away... all gone. And the feeling of being part of a living world and living history went with it. This is my main fear when it comes to EVE, to be honest. That step by step they'll throw the game away while trying to please everybody. <br /><br />Of course, that's just me and I'm probably not in the majority either. I did stay in EVE after all... We are the 10%! =)<br />Andreas Fiorenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7050183471078758937.post-77592697342678899812014-05-13T00:08:15.337-04:002014-05-13T00:08:15.337-04:00Yea... creepy and mean is not my bag either. And w...Yea... creepy and mean is not my bag either. And we do have our share I am afraid... Well, I always say, getting more than 3 people together on anything is usually a problem... we're no differnt.Turamarth Elrandirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08129383421613323047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7050183471078758937.post-83059821893889343722014-05-12T22:57:07.740-04:002014-05-12T22:57:07.740-04:00Oh, I see wormhole brawling as folks gettin' r...Oh, I see wormhole brawling as folks gettin' rowdy, something we Southerners have a keen appreciation of. :-) More than half my friends who play EVE live at least part time in wormholes. I lived in one briefly before I realized I needed to live closer to shopping. Heh. (IRL, I am SO not a shopper, but EVE's a whole different deal.)<br /><br />The stuff I'm talking about is creepier and meaner. Makes me uncomfortable. I do my best to just ignore it.Suzariel Kel-Patenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09141394814063525048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7050183471078758937.post-59970820007554501422014-05-12T20:06:56.160-04:002014-05-12T20:06:56.160-04:00Interesting... can't say I've ever felt th...Interesting... can't say I've ever felt that way and I am a batshit crazy dysfunctional 53 yo southern guy... but I also live in a wormhole, so mebbe I'm not the best test case for normal huh? =]Turamarth Elrandirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08129383421613323047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7050183471078758937.post-42762136373811180572014-05-12T19:39:08.792-04:002014-05-12T19:39:08.792-04:00I've tried other MMOs, and I was a GM in an MM...I've tried other MMOs, and I was a GM in an MMO 10-ish years ago. EVE's the one I've stuck with the longest. <br /><br />I love EVE, but parts of it really bother me. In the back of my head, there's an ongoing train of thought that wonders if at some point I'm going to regret paying into and supporting a game where some batshit crazy dysfunctional stuff is par for the course. <br /><br />I'm a Southerner, and a chick. It's pretty obvious I'm not their target audience. :-P And yet I persist, because my husband and a few RL friends still play. And because I'm stubborn enough to take some pride in playing the game in a way that may be considered wrong or stupid. :-)Suzariel Kel-Patenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09141394814063525048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7050183471078758937.post-58477664507711006022014-05-12T04:01:17.398-04:002014-05-12T04:01:17.398-04:00Bottom line, this: There is plenty of scope to tie...Bottom line, this: <i>There is plenty of scope to tie the story of EVE into PvE without turning the game into a theme park.</i><br /><br />I have no idea what turns away 50%... I was hooked from day one, as hooked as I am now 3 1/2 years later. I have no idea what other gamers are looking for, EVE is the only game I play, and the ONLY MMO I have ever played for more than a week or two.<br /><br />OK, so what drove me from all the MMOs I did try? (1) dunt wanna be an elf nor play with magic. I prefer SciFi and 'reality'. (2) all the SciFi games I tried came off... I dunno, cartooninsh... and simple...to hard to suspend disbelief, no 'Immersion'... EVE had that in spades from day one for me... the graphics and the sense of one 'verse...<br /><br />I'm prolly not a good test subject. But, we need to know what does drive em off... or leave em wanting more/other than what EVE has...Turamarth Elrandirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08129383421613323047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7050183471078758937.post-45276207043081459802014-05-12T03:27:01.724-04:002014-05-12T03:27:01.724-04:00The problem with PvE content is as you outlined: p...The problem with PvE content is as you outlined: people finish the story, then look for the next thing.<br /><br />I wonder if EVE already provides a broad enough environment such that the PvE can be a little unpredictable, have a few stories linking things together, and keep a story-focussed player occupied for a hundred hours before they exhaust the "content"?<br /><br />In W-space there are discoveries: entering certain sites brings up narrative from your ship's computer for example. The PvE content in EVE doesn't really need to be as involved as the main storyline quests of Elder Scrolls.<br /><br />One peril of adding more/better story lines to missions is that you get the same missions over and over again: the first time I ran The Anomaly, it was awesome! The second time it was like visiting a friend. The third time it was like having your old friend drop in on you unannounced. The fourth time it was like some stranger dropping in on you unannounced. Now I'm tired of it =(<br /><br />Another easter egg from "the good old days" were the pirate logs: basically little snippets of stories telling you about the location of certain DED complexes.<br /><br />EVE doesn't need to "out-content" the solo PvE content kings. There is plenty of scope to tie the story of EVE into PvE without turning the game into a theme park.<br /><br />But is the lack of solo PvE what turns the 50% away after the first month?<br />Mara Rinnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01237946299576915938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7050183471078758937.post-873302186495956922014-05-12T00:18:51.643-04:002014-05-12T00:18:51.643-04:00Lies, damned lies, and statistics =).
We know ho...Lies, damned lies, and statistics =). <br /><br />We know how many people leave. We know what they do and don't do (mission/mine and interact with other players at all, respectively). Are they leaving because the content they want is so-so, or are they leaving because they think it's the only content? I think this is what CCP Rise is getting at with his remark about NPE experience.<br /> <br />Consider that most players are likely to be coming from either single player games or conventional themepark MMOs. They finish NPE (familiar questing, gathering, crafting), run the SoE arc (more questing), get some sweet leveling gear... er, ships... now what? Questing and gathering for better gear, right? This is why they end up leveling up their Ravens. They never go past what the tutorial specifically taught them to do.<br /> <br />You can certainly make an argument that a better solo experience would retain more of these players. Perhaps. Piece by piece, Blizzard reworked WoW into an easy, largely solo affair. Tons of polished, low commitment content. WoWville? Got it. PokeWoW? Yep. Raids for everyone? You bet. Yet they are still bleeding subs.<br /> <br />Now, I agree that improving solo experience would make the game better. For everybody. I might even run a mission or two myself then, but doubt it would make group #3 stick around. They'll finish that content, too, and move on. Also, I'm not convinced that aiming to out-content the king of solo themepark content is a sound business decision. Andreas Fiorenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7050183471078758937.post-54629087238158294382014-05-11T22:28:48.994-04:002014-05-11T22:28:48.994-04:00A few questions I hope they're looking at and ...A few questions I hope they're looking at and being brutally honest with themselves about:<br /><br />1. Why do so many players avoid these social entanglements we're so keen to get them into? <br /><br />2. Is it possible we don't fully understand what kinds of social activities really are out there and we're limiting ourselves to seeing only a few kinds as valid?<br /><br />3. Is driving people to social engagement with other players the be-all and end-all of player retention? (I think to some extent they made a correlation/causation mistake with that one.)<br /><br />The PVE needs to be better, absolutely. I haven't heard much disagreement about that.<br /><br />Most people I hang out with in EVE I know from other social venues, and the larger group is made up of people one to two degrees of separation from that. We just don't meet up with absolute strangers very much. I'm a fairly outgoing person IRL, so not being friendly to strangers in-game is odd for me, but that's kinda how we all get conditioned by the game culture. I wish things were different, honestly.<br />Suzariel Kel-Patenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09141394814063525048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7050183471078758937.post-33422353334097398732014-05-11T10:23:25.055-04:002014-05-11T10:23:25.055-04:00This is exactly what I am talking about... EVE'...This is exactly what I am talking about... EVE's PVE needs to be better, for those who can't invest more into the game... EVE is an SciFi genre game and there is a wealth of potential storyline style situations that could be made into missions... the examples you give are excellent.<br /><br />Get people interested, give them something FUN to do WHILE they figure out that there is more here.Turamarth Elrandirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08129383421613323047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7050183471078758937.post-49703782080597581572014-05-11T10:18:48.762-04:002014-05-11T10:18:48.762-04:00I think they are just blinded by two things... (1)...I think they are just blinded by two things... (1) the amount of press Nullsec gets and (2) their own 'vision' of EVE as a social game only... EVE is an MMO, and as such it can cater to a wide variety of playstyles... and it should. No NOT SAFE playstyles... That is where I draw the line. EVE is primarily a PvP game, but it could be one that also has good PvE... giving more players reasons to fly here... and find out how amazing a game can be when risk is real and virtual things have value.<br /><br />Focusing on only 5 to 10% of new subs simply cannot be a winning business model.Turamarth Elrandirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08129383421613323047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7050183471078758937.post-45454768355298558112014-05-11T09:36:53.196-04:002014-05-11T09:36:53.196-04:00An excellent post, I have been playing eve now for...An excellent post, I have been playing eve now for 3 years. Although I am in a small corp, I tend to play solo due to RL and time zones. A lot of potential players simply do not have the time to commit to playing in corp. I have come close to leaving a few times due to the lack of real solo work/content to do in eve. <br />A few ideas...<br />Make more missions story based increase the eve lore, similar to the epic arcs. With better risk/rewards.<br />Have some of the missions go into WH space, looking for some sleeper artefacts.<br />Have the NPC’s drop attack drones on you.<br />Create discovery missions, having to use a scanning boat and then trying to solve and piece together clues to a reward hidden at some location. This could end in a combat or hacking mission. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7050183471078758937.post-51229012008352456172014-05-11T02:48:44.643-04:002014-05-11T02:48:44.643-04:00Good post Tur.
Yup I was as surprised as you were...Good post Tur.<br /><br />Yup I was as surprised as you were when Rise and Jester stated that 90% of players are leaving and concluded "let's improve things for the 10%."Stabshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08716211705647213383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7050183471078758937.post-66235951833471635282014-05-10T08:59:42.529-04:002014-05-10T08:59:42.529-04:00LOL... Nowhere did I say Oh CCP, PLEASE MAKE EVE ...LOL... Nowhere did I say Oh CCP, PLEASE MAKE EVE A SAFE THEMEPARK you dunce... If you really are a noob FYI I live in W-space, negative security space, the deadliest space IN the game man... so no, I do not ever want non-consensual PvP to be nerfed... even a little bit.<br /><br />What I said was, make the PvE GOOD enough to get the 40% to stay, and mebbe catch some of the 50% who flee on sight, to grow the overall playerbase. And evidently the Storyline Theme aint working if we are retaining only 5 to 10% of players who TRY EVE, now is it?Turamarth Elrandirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08129383421613323047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7050183471078758937.post-68543241225952114342014-05-10T07:11:53.617-04:002014-05-10T07:11:53.617-04:00Good post! Stating the self-evident.
I'm a ne...Good post! Stating the self-evident.<br /><br />I'm a newer player. The "storyline theme" of Eve is Eve Online's best marketing point. Your point of migrating from theme to hollow PvP by CHOICE is spot on.<br />Art Hornbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18103351963477702828noreply@blogger.com