Welcome to the continuing monthly EVE Blog Banters and our 77th
edition! For more details about what the blog banters are please visit the Blog
Banters Page.
Is there a malaise affecting Eve currently? Blogs and podcasts are going dark and space
just feels that little bit emptier. One suggestion is that there may be a
general problem with the vets, especially those pre-Incarna and older, leaving
and being replaced by newer players who are not as invested in the game.
The colonists versus immigrants? Is this a
problem? Are there others? Or is everything just fine and it's just another
bout of summer "ZOMG
EVE IZ DYING!"
Banter on...
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OK. Here’s the thing. Global Warming and EVE have a whole lot in
common... except of course, for all the differences. What do they have in
common you ask? Glad you asked says I.
Global Warming is to reality like EVE IS DYING is to EVE… IE not.
You see Global Warming is bullshit… it’s actually just one more statistical
point on a long long graph called Climate Change and that has been a “thing”
since the earth first accreted out of the primordial cloud left over from Sol’s little
bang.
So, Gobal Warming is the idea that our world’s climate is a stable
thing and changes are usual. Nothing could be farther from the truth. The earth’s
climate is and has been in a constant state of change and flux for as long as
the earth has existed and it will only become “stable” if or when the earth
loses all atmosphere and hence all liquid surface water and all life etc., etc.
… IE when the earth is as dead as the moon THEN and only then will it have a "stable" climate…
just like the moon. But as long as there is air and water heated by the sun above and a hot core and flowing magma below… the earth itself and it’s climate WILL be in a state of constant change. Whether it
changes slow or fast is up to the observer… IE time scales are (1) important and (B) subjective.
Do you think an ant or a Mayfly experiences time the same way you
do? Do you think a Blue Whale or the Pando (Quaking Aspen) experiences
time the same way we humans do? I don’t. Imagine if you will that to a Mayfly there is
no ‘climate’ there is only now and to the Pando, estimated to be 80,000 years
old, this current warm period is just a decently leangth summer… You see the Pando was alive during the last actual Ice Age.
The Earth is currently in what is called an interglacial period of the Quaternary Ice Age, the last true glacial period of the Quaternary ended approximately 11,700 years ago with the start of the Holocene epoch, which from the Pando’s point of view probably seems like just a few years ago.
The Earth is currently in what is called an interglacial period of the Quaternary Ice Age, the last true glacial period of the Quaternary ended approximately 11,700 years ago with the start of the Holocene epoch, which from the Pando’s point of view probably seems like just a few years ago.
Global Warming is a null phrase, it is meaningless. The earth's climate
will warm up and it will cool down but it will never be stable. Climate Change = Weather
on a geologic time scale, this is the norm people, it changes, get over it.
What has this to do with EVE? Guess what… EVE has and is and will continue to change over
time too. EVE unlike the Earth is an artificial system, but while the game is a
series of intermeshed man made programs and complex computer code it still does
evolve in its own way. As the players change, as the devs change, as the
technology that it is based on changes so too does EVE change.
That EVE is changing is abundantly clear to anyone familiar with
the game. But do these changes mean the death of the game anymore than global temperature
changes equal global disaster? Simple answer, of course not. But haters will
hate because hate and anger are easy… it is so easy to go straight to the
negative. Yes, the PCU is down and yes, some older established blogs have gone
dark. My last post was on that very topic. But... new players are trialing the game, and as always some do stay and
there are new blogs and some of the older ones, Hermit's, Nevillie’s, Kirith’s,
Drakarns’s
and even mine for instance, are still here, still playing, still posting.
In the short view, let’s call it the short sighted view, these
changes can be easily charged with emotion and cries of "ZOMG EVE IZ DYING!" are sooo easy
and, they do get attention too don’t they?… as compared to cries of “EVE is ok.”…
not nearly as much fun to run around shouting “EVE is fine, we’re all good
here.” now is it?
EVE is going on 14 years old and no one yet knows how long shared persistent
virtual realities can last, what their expected life spans are, they are too
new a thing in the world. Yes things are changing in EVE but like so many
things that live longer lives change is not necessarily fatal, it is however absolutely
unavoidable… just like the weather.
Fly reckless but carry an umbrella and I’ll see you in the Sky
=/|)=
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"Blog Banters" are brought to you, now, by the Good Folks at...
“Sand, Cider and Spaceships” by Drackarn.
Admittedly claiming that EVE is doing good enough because the current evolution of climate is nothing to worry about neither, may be one of the boldest EVE-related analogies I've read.
ReplyDeleteYet you're wrong on both accounts. Hitting a wall while driving your car is a change of speed. Your car is changing its speed continuously, actually changes it so often that your reactions to those changes are mostly unconscious. Yet when your speed changes from 100 km/h to 0 in 0.15 seconds, shit happens.
That is true for climate, which is changing too much, too fast, in too little time. But also is true for EVE, where whole sections of the game change too little and taking too much time as the population engaged in those sections shrinks faster than it can be replaced for a game as old/niche as EVE.
Losing long term, invested PvP colonists would be bad, probably fatal for EVE. But CCP is trying instead to lose short term, uninvolved PvE inmigrants and it doesn't looks pretty. Those PvE people being dismissed are where CCP's big money comes from. Always was this way, still is, and when it stops being, EVE will no longer be commercially viable with its current structure, resources and costs. The post-Incarna and 2013 layoffs will look like mild restructuring comapred to what will be left of EVE team if all money comes solely from people who "build their dreams and wreck others'"
That will also be a change. Same as you can step down from your car after crashing it and walk back home, EVE can survive the current trend to lose the 90% and keep the 10%. But it will no longer be the game we know, and maybe not even a game we (you) are interested to play.
Angry, you are as bad a negative influence on EVE as Vince Snetterton or Poetic Sanziel. And I will not engage in a discourse with you, arguing with you is a waste of breath and effort. What I do not like is that you only bitch, piss and moan… You are part of the problem, not a part of any solution.
DeleteI could care less what you think of my analogy, because you will twist words and use rhetoric, not argue with respect and intelligence and from a desire to find a better way. The changes I speak of are evolutionary, not momentary… your car wreck analogy has no objective other than to twist my meaning. CCP is not filing bankruptcy, they are not laying off any devs… the drop in PCU does not reflect a one for one loss of players, so it is not a car wreck, your argument has no merit.
As far as the climate changing too fast… according to who? You? So you are a climatologist now too? The climate WILL change, and whether or not we have anything to do with it is a consequence of LIFE. Because we are PART of this living ecosystem then of course we affect that system. That you and other’s want to separate man from the natural world is your fantasy, not mine. And you can argue that our influence is greater and or worse all you want. There are thousands of examples of other species whos affects are or were vastly greater than ours, and from differing perspectives, far far worse.
If you could I’d tell you to ask ALL of the life on this world, no matter what, that existed before the cyanobateria poisoned the atmosphere with oxygen if man was ruining our world. Yes, I said poisoned the atmosphere with one of the most volatile chemicals in the universe, the 21% oxygen content that WE evolved in and would die without. Everything that thrived in the billions of years before approx 2.45 billion years ago, died out or evolved and adapted over the roughly one billon years it took for the atmosphere to reach its current balance of gases.
It was obvious that I was talking about months and years of change and evolution, whether intentional in the code, or emergent in the players actions and reactions.
And that’s all the time I’m going to invest in your argument.
You want to comment here, I will post only rational and positive, affirmative here’s what’s wrong, here’s how I think we can fix it comments. Bitch piss and moan, and shit on CCP and the devs and players who play the game in a way you hate, and your words will never see the light of day here.
I’m sick to death of negativity.
I never thought Poe was 'bad for Eve', but I do think that, their blog having vanished, perhaps there was something I missed?
DeleteTura,
ReplyDeleteRead this yesterday and didn't post a comment as I digested your blog. I have only logged 2hrs or so in the last month within EVE between 5 mains, not sure why and could even start to explain it. (I have played averaging 20-25hrs a week since Feb 2011) Posting today just to say thanks for your perspective logged in yesterday for the first time in 3 weeks, picked up with my corp mates as if nothing had changed, after the obligatory "Where have you been?" discussions and woke up this morning having slept EVE again. I cannot explain or tell you what specifically in this post connected with me but I can say thanks for holding the torch. EVE may or may not die sooner or later and it might get harder or easier as it progresses but I plan to be here to watch it, enjoy it and participate in it.
Thanks,
SLy
Thanx Sly…
DeleteI too am not loggin on nearly as much right now… summer, kids and the big one, the wife and I are ‘dating’ again (that was what we lost and why I had moved out. We had become a mom-n-dad, bill payers, home owners, etc., etc. … and in all that we had stopped being a ‘couple’. So we are back to dating and making time for US… a damn good thing I can tell you!).
But I do pretty much stay logged into TS all the time. As the wife and I are copacetic again we have converted the spare/storage room into a den/crafts room and that is where I now have my PC desk and she has her sewing table and desk. We also have a TV and a small couch in there so this has become the defacto family room in the evenings now. We hangout, watch TV & movies, read, game, etc. She and my dottir do crafts etc. while I blog, read and keep tabs on TS JIC anyone shows up. And if anyone does, I login and off we go.
More of my time has been devoted to family and other pursuits so I am not on as much, but there are also the factors that most of my corp is in the same boat timewise and we all are sitting on pretty fat wallets… for us at least. I have over 4 bil on Tur alone. I don’t need to run sites or do any PVE on my own as I don’t need the cash… so my main interest is if/when my bros are on and second is PVP with my gang… but if the guys login and all we are gonna do is run sites, I’m still down.
That is part of the point of this post… just cause shit changes dunt mean it’s dying… just means it’s changing is all. Roll with it… adapt and figure out how the changes might be taken advantage of, actively seek to find NEW fun and keep on keepin on instead of crying and gnashing teeth over how BAD it all is… Things are bad only if that’s how you perceive them. There is opportunity in change, if you seek it.
Like you said… I plan to be here to watch it, enjoy it and participate in it… as do I my friend, as do I.
I don't agree with your Climate Change argument/analogy, but that's a different subject.
ReplyDeleteI am a mostly PvP focused player. But otherwise I think that PvE activities are the bread and butter of the game. In my opinion, if PvE (and here I add industry/mining too) was strong, so able to keep a big player base constantly engage with the game, it would be able to reinvigorate other aspects of the game. In a world whitout many rules, PvP and conflict emerges if riches and wealth is around and needs to be contested.
I really really hope that CCP can accomplish some of this.
Anyway, weel written post. Cheers.
You are the proof in the pudding as 'twere... A player who considers himself a PVPer yet feell strongly about PVE, considers PVE the "bread and butter" of EVE.
DeleteI agree wholeheartedly, making ISK is how we "afford" PVP, without ways to make ISK, no market, no ships, not modules... no game. And I agree PVE needs to be strong, but... it needs to be balanced against the needs and drivers of PVP. To my way of thinking we need PVE that becomes the driver for PVP, and not can flipping or miner griefing... as you said, "...PvP and conflict emerges if riches and wealth is WORTH being contested and fought over..."
Completely totally agree. Now... who has some idea's?
OK, so Angry sent another comment, I told him keep on the negative rant and you won’t get posted here, he did, so I am not posting it.
ReplyDeleteTo be fair though, he did send this ‘positive feedback’ idea: “…work for an Empire and that Empire will pay some of your taxes via a ingame token. That token can be used or sold.” These tokens are used to pay/offset (?) the increased taxes at NPC stations so you aren’t forced to use the new Market Citadels (which are obviously all owned by ebil PVP player groups). It’s still playing the game to make ISK (or things worth ISK). If you don’t think that would be gamed all to hell then you really don’t understand EVE or its players.
His comment had the following terms (and now he’s stopped using spellcheck FFS)
“…big stick otnh e bakc of anyoen who doens't Pvps…”
“…someone whose only merit is to be a PvPer…”
“…PvErs are never invited to the development ball.” (I call BS on that as PVE’ers are not barred from Fanfest or blocked on the forums)
"…they (PVEers) just are hit by the stick and beat it ot leave the game.”
And my favorite… “…choices are made by CCP, and they consistently choose to hit certain (majority) players with a stick to provide a carrot to certain (minority) others.” Riiiiight….
Yes Angry, CCP’s owners and management are SOOOO fukking stupid that they would rather see the company and game they built and created from the ground up FAIL than actually make money just to piss off one, and according to you the largest, segment of their customer base. This statement, which you have made over and over and over is the only proof I need that you have no real understanding of what CCP is and has been doing to do for the last 13+ years. IF that was their marketing strategy the company would have failed long ago.
(to be continued...)
I’m not a fanboy, I am not drunk on the Koolaid… But business is business and you do NOT stay viable, profitable and competitive for over 13 YEARS in a market as volatile as Internet Games without (1) a good product and (2) at least decent management.
DeleteOne last point, you and so many seem to think PVEers and PVPers are two distinct and separate type of players. Almost like you can’t do PVP if you do any PVE and vice versa. And that is patently untrue. Every PVP’er I have ever met does PVE also… you have to, in order to make ISK. You could use your credit card to buy PLEX to afford to just engage in PVP, and I assume there are those that do this, but in 5+ years ingame I have yet to meet one or read anything from someone who does that.
Everyone I have met who prefers PVP to PVE, prefers it… but they ALL also play plenty of PVE, from missions, to sites, to market and manufacturing. Now I do know a few players who PVE only, they avoid PVP like the plague... but I know far more who consider themselves PVE players, but who dabble in PVP.
The PVE vs PVP thing is not as clear cut as I think you would like it to be and I personally and strongly believe as I have said many times that CCP has spent over 13 years walking a fine sharp line balancing the needs both of PVE and PVP in EVE, with the understanding that they do not want and are not developing a PVE focused game. PVP is the primary focus, and I don’t see that changing.
Angry If you want a good quality space sim that is truly PVE focused, why are you playing EVE? You should be playing Elite Dangerous. ED is so PVE focused that while I LOVE the graphics and flight mechanics are far and away better than EVE’s, I stopped playing from boredom… because the social aspects, PVP and PWP (Player with Player) are simply too disconnected, I was spoiled by EVE’s focus on players working WITH other players to effectively fight other players who are also working together. ED’s social aspects pale in comparison to me.
Try again Angry…
Oh and before anyone starts whining, "Unfair!! you posted a reply but not the comment!! Unfair, Unfair!!" read my "Blog Disclaimer and Comment Policy"... It's my damn blog, not an open public forum.
OK, this ons is gonna be weird. I am short of time and my typewriting is godawful so will make a two-part message.
DeleteFirst, where I come from. I am (was) old enough to recall the "ultimate SF simulation game" pitch. I wholeheartedly bought that concept, of a game where, whatever you did, it was *awesome* and *scifi* and *EVE*. My first crisis came when I noticed that shooting NPCs was just a money grind, a mean to an end, and the end was... shooting other players. Something I've done gladly in every online game I've played, /BUT EVE/.
When I learned of Ambulation, later Incarna, I thought that CCP was going to expand the universe in a direction where people who can't deal with EVE's PvP could expand in different direction. "Ultimate SF simulation" and yadda yadda.
Things obviously didn't turned that way. Even as Incarna crashed and burned it was made obvious to me that there was a great divide between PvP content and PvE content, and that divide was structural (game design) and social (PvP players are way more social than PvE) and corporate (CCP listens to players who talk... aka mostly PvPrs... and doesn't listens to those who don't tlak... aka mostly PvErs).
The last part, the final realization that really baffles me, is that PvE are the majority, but CCP doesn't seems to operate on the principle that the most of your customers bring the most of your income and thus require the most of your attention.
And this is the end of my first comment, gotta go to work now. I apologyze for any unchecked typewriting errors...
Now for the second part.
DeleteSince many people fail to understand, I will say that I know that some people does PvP AND PvE. Yet that group is smaller than people who does only PvE. Larger to smaller, the demographcis are Only PvE -> Both PvE and PvP -> only PvP. I also understand that PvP is more than shooting stuff. But we are talking about mechanics to hit people and mechanics to hit NPC.
So most people do PvE and even people who pay for PvP, do PvE. And yet PvE lets little attention, little progress and currently is in a terrible state and there are no plans for it. Why? Don't CCP want to earn money?
They want, but their information was wrong: GIGO. The Rubicon plan was set while CCP transitioned to customer oriented design, and CCP began building data gathering tools at the same time of startign the Rubicon plan. So Rubicon was built on insufficient information on players, based mostly on active player feedback pre-2013, and the awareness that PvE is a main source of income has evolved as the plan moved forward. What in 2013 was a no-data (PvE is 50% of EVE income) now has become a serious issue about how that 50% of income is leaving the game in silence while CCP focuses on a small but loud slice of the population.
Rubicon NEEDED to include PvE, but it didn't. It still doesn't. At this point, I don't think that CCP will delay the upcoming PvP structures to implement a coherent plan so PvE is put to par with PvP. And that is the end for EVE as we know it, a game with a high population of PvErs feeding a smaller chunk of PvPrs..
Could I be positive? Well, some people think that EVE Vegas will shed a light of hope for PvE and thus for EVE. But frankly, I've been in this place twice in the last 7 years, and I don't have such hope. Because in order to have a plan for PvE, CCP should be engaging the playerbase about it, and they aren't. They haven't for years. You bet there is noone more willing to give thme feedback on PvE than I am. But they don't even ASK.
And the PvE crowd is a shy, quiet, uninvolved one. They don't have high stakes on EVE, but CCP does have high stakes on EVE and the PvE crowd. CCP should ask, not wait to be engaged. Thus the development focus for 2013-2018 is on PvP and what do PvP players want and how do PvP players feel about being so special for CCP. So special but so less profitable than plain old boring Missions and Mining.
I wish CCP did something for PvE this year, tomorrow better than next week. But then I wished they delayed Incarna until Winter 2011 rather than launch the horribily underdeveloped stuff at Sisi, and also wished the Rubicon plan would include something else than stuff to PvP for or about...
You said, “My first crisis came when I noticed that shooting NPCs was just a money grind, a mean to an end, and the end was... shooting other players.”
DeleteOK, shooting NPCs (ALL PVE) was ALWAYS just a “job”, it was designed that way and is that way because CCP felt the best content could not be written by Devs. Look at one the last big WoW expansions, “Warlords of Draenor” officially announced Nov 8, 2013 and released Nov 13, 2014. It took a friend of mine less than one week to run it ALL… 1 year in development, 1 week and it was old news… CCP felt the best ongoing, never-ending content was emergent player interactions in a deep and rich sandbox environment... and that was what they wanted to make, it is what they made, and that is the ideal that has NOT changed.
If you have been following me at all, you know how strongly I feel about the lost opportunity that was Incarna… and you know I blame CCP for mismanaging it, but I place much more of the blame on those in the playerbase who fought this addition to EVE, not money spent on a Different Game, money spent on a New Way to PLAY EVE… Many FiSTards (the Flying in Space Elite) freaked the fuck out and scared the shit outta CCP… Angry, that one is on us, we killed WiS not CCP. Maybe not me and not you, but it was the playerbase’s overreaction that CCP responded to.
There is, of course, a great difference between PVE and PVP. One is against computer code and one is against living thinking beings. And yes, the divide IS intentional. In EVE PVE is a way to make ISK to afford PVP. It has always been the design and intent of CCP and I don’t see that changing ever.
You say the group who does PVE-Only are larger than the group that does both… May I ask where you got your info from? I follow CCP Quant, and at FF2105 he showed us all a chart porn rich presentation where he sought in the numbers the player stereotypes such as the miner the carebear the nullbear the bitterwet… What he found was that most players can be classified as Professionals (approx. 29%) (percentages based on a screencap printout, measured and lined, of the “% of Playerbase” graph in the presentation). Well rounded players who are active across the board, PVP=PVEers. They engage in both PVE and PVP equally.
Second… SECOND are the Traditionals (approx. 25%)… the your vaunted PVE-Only players, with a very very close third, the Entrepreneurs (approx. 24%), players who I feel it could be said are PVE>PVP, players who spend more time on PVE than they do on PVP but not significantly so. I am, strangely enough, an Entrepreneurs ( but I my case it’s not for lack of actively seeking PVP, it’s just harder to find in Anoikis than in Empire is all, better class of PVPers and few per system over all)…
Of the remaining 2 classes, Socials (approx. 14%) is next largest, though they actually don’t actually “play” the game so much as lurk around in EVE… and last and smallest, is the Aggressors (approx. 8%), the PVP Elite, the true PVP-Only players. The ones you think are the ONLY ones CCP listens to.
I disagree with you. If you add the Professional and the Entrepreneur and the Aggressor together, IE those players who engage in PVP regularly you have 78%, there is your majority of players… NOT those who are in it just for PVE. While I will grant you the Traditionals are the second largest “single” segment, but they are not the driving force in the playerbase in EVE… sorry Angry, you are simply wrong on this.
(to be continued...)
One last thing, just last month CCP Quant posted this on Reddit:
DeleteYou guys seem to be setting new records every month, this time in produced value, peaking at 4.7T ISK in a single day! by CCP_Quant in Eve
“CCP_Quant [S] 6 points 1 month ago* (3rd line down)
I would say so yes, absolutely. The economy is in great shape, activity is great, PLEX prices are no longer as predictable as before, making it a bit more exciting, we are back to expansions that bring a bunch of new features to shock the system and fix some stagnating game play, and we have some interesting things ahead of us.
Business wise EVE is standing on strong ground, which is necessary for healthy game development, and we are growing a solid player-base. New-player churn is a problem for all games, and is always going to be a problem since you try to optimize towards minimizing it but you can never get rid of it :) I get that you guys perceive EVE to have that problem, but in historical context new player churn is at its lowest. That can be attributed to better marketing, better NPE, skill trading, but first and foremost to our awesome community of players that are so enthusiastic about bringing people into EVE both externally and internally by helping them get over the initial hurdles, on the forums, here on reddit, and in-game (E-UNI, Brave, Horde, Test, Karmafleet, RvB, ...only to name a few :) )
<3”
That alone is enough for me. I do trust CCP Quant, number can be manipulated but they also only lie if made to by the hand of man, and so far I have never seen anything from Quant that has given me to worry, so I’m not. Yes the game is changing, and yes PVP is and always will be the main “thing” in EVE… if you want PVE only or safe PVE, go play something else, simple as that. This just may not be the right game for you.
Angry, this was the most moderate comment I have EVER Seen from you… that’s why posted it. I do not mind disagreement and discourse, as long as it’s intelligent, based on facts and presented with respect for all parties. This time you did that, Kudos.
You said, “You bet there is no-one more willing to give thme feedback on PvE than I am. But they don't even ASK.”… Temper your anger and get positive, run for CSM but accept that you will have a fight on your hands with other players, then get in there and fight the good fight. But FFS quit whining and crying and being negative, you only defeat yourself that way. Or… give up and quit, but dammit man, stop whining. This comment shows that you can.
We may disagree on the figures of how many people play Pve vs PvP (if your freighter blows in the way to Jita, you're a PvPrs as far as CCP numbercrunchers can tell), but the core point is that PvE is more important than the tiny share of resources allocated to it and that is detrimental to EVE.
DeleteSee, in order to have broken dreams and be angry about it, one needs to ahve dreams. I my dreams, PvE would be a mean to pvP in a bloodless war, similar to what RL billionaires do. They don't grab a M1A Abrams and fire on the HQ of their foes, do they? So in my dreams, being extremely good in PvE would be rewarded with being extremely powerful against other players, same as being extremely good at PvP is rewarded by, well, being extremely powerful.
Here in EVE we've got "politics by other means" aka War, but we lack "War by other means". Say an enemy bribes CONCORD to look away as they do war on you (the current wardec system). Then you talk to your NPC Empire and the Empire sends the Navy to defend your assets (PvE defensive war). Furher, let's say that the empire owes you such favor, that they actually force yoru wardeccers to fly in disarmed ships or be shot on sight (PvE offensive war). As you may notice, it's a conflict between players, it's EVE 100%... but it's not about who can bring N+1 friends to a gank/counter gank.
In my dreams, these kind of "bloodless wars" would span all over the place. Who pays what taxes to whom based on who they befriend or don't. Who bribes what NPC so it shifts allegiances and thus gets its NPC favors. Et cetera.
That would make for a mroe open and dynamic high sec space, and would turn the killing of NPCs and the shooting of rocks into something to be accounted for when opposing another player... not just "we got N+1 guns, 10 years of expertise and they're noobz".
Maybe even at some points, "peace decs" would be a thing... a way to force players to Pve agaisnt their will, much as wardecs exsit to force players to PvP against their will.
And it all starts by agreeing that lots of people actually pay CCP to shoot rocks and kill NPCs, and they will never PvP. CCP faield horribly to deliver the possibility of becoming "Fashion queen of the station", but maybe there is still some hope for PvE.
I PvP in every game I play but EVE. I am a terrible PvPr so I lose more than I win, but I have fun in the process. Just that doesn't works in EVE. In EVE losses matter, and I don't want to be punished for being the way I am.
EVE is not my PvP game, fine. But I still mourn how "the ultimate SF simulation" became "wreck their dreams or else, we couldn't do any better guys".
PvP is the best thing CCP has done in EVE. But in no way should be the only thing well done!
(BTW: I am not a socially skilled person. Running for CSM was easily discarded since my ingame friends could be counted with both hands and the ones still playing now can be counted without hands...)
Detrimental to EVE... as YOU see it, not as CCP sees it and, well... it's their game man. As you said... in YOUR dreams... your dreams are not theirs. You wanna be angry cause someone did not make your dreams come true... well, sorry, that's on you, not them.
DeleteWardecs... I personally would like to see more balanced gameplay there, right now it is too unbalanced... but not in PVE/PVP... it is unbalanced against younger and smaller corps. Not PVE corps, the YOUNGER and SMALLER corps. The issue w/ bribing the Empires of CONCORD to stop looking the other way is the same as the age old get some Mercs to help you BS... younger and smaller corps normally cannot AFFORD to bribe CONCORD and they definitely can't afford EVE Mercs... I know, I used to be one.
One idea I had was for CCP to create NPC Mercs. NPCs who would fly as allies and defenders in fleet with any solo member or fleet of a wardecced corp and balance their price & capabilities against the age and number of chars in the corp being wardecced. Prices and Capabilities: The lower the SP/age of the toon/corp membership = lower cost + higher NPC fighting capability. As the SP/age of toon/corp membership goes up, the cost for the NPC Mercs also goes up but their capabilities are reduced. Does that make sense? IE younger and smaller corps get a great benefit at a low cost from NPC Mercs but as they age and grow in SP that benefit reduces and the costs go up.
I am not sure how this would be gamed by vets. (1) If a vet rolls a new tune and injects him to high SP, his NPC Merc costs skyrocket as their fighting capabilities shrink. (2) If a vet rolls a new tune and skills up normally, yes, he gets the benefit of NPC Mercs... but he is flying a low skill tune... he may be better at the game as a human, but he is limited INGAME due to toon SP limits, so it stays balanced.
Your "Peace Dec" and such things as "...force your wardeccers to fly in disarmed ships or be shot on sight (PvE offensive war). As you may notice, it's a conflict between players, it's EVE 100%..." first off it will never see the light of day at CCP... it is 100% NOT EVE, disarmed ships? bloodless wars?? Seriously? All of that is just another long roundabout way of saying this is summed up nicely by you in, "...wardecs exist to force players to PvP against their will." or "I don't want to be forced to PVP." or "I want to play a PVE only game." Not going to happen ever.
I do totally agree that lots of people actually pay CCP to shoot rocks and kill NPCs. But PVP in EVE is not a "choice". It can happen at any moment after you undock. Don't like that? Stop undocking.
Oh and "...we couldn't do any better guys." is BS. PvP IS the best thing CCP has done in EVE because EVE is a PVP centric game. So it isn't "...we couldn't do any better..." it's "Damn, we did exactly what we were shooting for! Now... how do we make PVP better?"
(to be continued...)
Angry, I have enjoyed these last few comments and back-n-forth with you, it is refreshing to not get all pissed off halfway or sooner through one of your comments because of tinfoil and juvenile behavior. You ahve been reasonable and calm and have spoken as a player with concerns. But damn man... you really need to accept EVE for what it is. CCP set out on a very specific mission 13 years ago. They knew what hey wanted and they have not erred from their course in all that time... and they are not going to now.
DeletePVE is a JOB. It is a way to make ISK. It is NOT and I believe PVE never will be an end game in and of itself and is surely will never be the be all and end all of EVE... and I personally also believe it shouldn't ever be.
And, if you will, please forgive me the personal note (but you brought it up)... that "(BTW: I am not a socially skilled person... ...my ingame friends could be counted with both hands and the ones still playing now can be counted without hands...)" is something you need to think hard about. Hermit plays a damn near completely solo game, but he accepts EVE at face value. His issues are not that others PVP, or that he has been attacked in his EVE career. He accepts that the fact of constant danger and the loss is real effect in EVE gives this game it's true value... makes it worth the effort.
You want to change the game so you are or can be made safe from PVP. CCP doesn't, so it's not going to happen man. Seriously, it's not.
I don't even... A "safe" EVE? Where did I say that? I don't want a safe game. I want a game where PvE is dangerous. A game where players must PvE to be safe from other players... or go play elsewhere.
DeleteBut frankly I don't think I can convey this properly. Some things are just too outside of the box.
Conflict in EVE is onedimensional. It's only about physical violence and PvE is just a job to pay for that violence.
But conflict can also be about who sets the rules by using NPCs as tools.
Shooting a NPC is PvE, unless that NPC is doing what a player commanded it, then it's PvP by other means. War by other means. And maybe the defence is not to bring more players, but to interact with the appropiate NPC.
A Bishop threatens your Rook. You move you Knight so threatens the Bishop and it must move away...
PvE as PvP by other means, not "safe game where nobody can PvP me". No, it's the opposite... a game where even ignoring NPCs was dangerous because they could be the tools of players, as much as ships or Citadels are tools.
In my experience, people don't get it... but it's not about safety. It's about fighting by other means. That's what PvE in EVE should be.
Certainly more than a job...
I have been reading this blog for years (started playing in 2009, found the blog sometime after that...). I am pretty much all over the map in terms of what I do in EVE. I have a character focused in every aspect of EVE except two (Nullsec and Wormholes). I am working on fixing the latter. All my hisec activities have been on the decline for a bit due to lack of content and my general lack of interest. Appreciate your take on the subject, and hope to see some content in the near future. I plan on running a couple low level new bro events on my own just for some content. Anyway, thanks.
ReplyDelete-Zgeik
Hi Zgeik! o/ Thanx... We bloggers often do a lot of discussing amongst ourselves, it is always good to hear from a reader.
DeleteGlad you enjoyed the post, adapt and seek opportunity created out of the changes. Most of all, find the fun man, you have to make it in EVE, they don't code it for you. Good luck out there!