For He Today That Sheds His Blood with Me, Shall Be My Brother…

~or We Share our Ships and our Deaths, But Not Our Immortality…

This post is a response to Ripard Teg’s post, “This fine ship, this fine crew”… over on Jester’s Trek. I ask that you do go read his post if you haven’t but if you don’t wanna do the TL;DR... to sum up, Ripard lays out his reasoning behind why “Ship Crews” in New Eden, if added as an ingame mechanic, would be AWESUM but not work. I disagree and I began to comment as such until I reached the point where my comment exceeded the original post at which point it became a post in its own right… so let’s dive right in shall we?

“A few reasons why this idea -- while indisputably awesome -- would be a bad idea for EVE.”

I disagree and will answer directly to your reasoning.

“First, let's get past the notion that some people have that EVE ships don't have crews. They do.”

Agreed, something I have had to argue and prove more than once. Plus I would like to add this post from 2010 by none other than Seismic Stan (Matt Westhorpe) over on Freebooted, “The Ship's Crew Debate” which does not come to the same conclusion but does give some very good insights and arguments on the Lore both ways. And also this post from 2010 by Teala from MMORPG.com, “EVE Online - The need for adding the human factor.” Which, while it is about WiS and the player Avatar it also lends credence to the argument for gameplay & mechanics that include the human side of the EvE equation. As for Ship Crews, I say CCP laid this one to rest a long time ago as Jester and I have both shown in the CCP Produced ‘EVE Online’ Evelopedia page below... taken directly from the “New Eden crew guidelines”.

Ripard says…

“So capsuleer ships have crews.  Should the abilities of these crews improve?  I don't think they should, and it's for three reasons.”

Now, to take Jester’s opinion on, Point for point…

“First, the crew system -- whatever it was -- would be gamed to hell and back. That's what EVE players do, after all.”

First -- Yes, EvE players game the game. So? As you said, it’s what EvE players do. By that standard CCP should live in dire fear of ever making any changes at all to EvE. No, I am sorry but the fact that EvE players ‘game the game’ is not a reason to stop making changes and/or additions or Expansions and Patches… IMHO the fact that EvE players are so into EvE that they work harder at ‘gaming the game’ than they sometimes do at ‘playing the game’ is a reason to rejoice… the day we stop ‘gaming the game’ is the day EvE becomes ‘just another MMO’ and that is the day it begins to die… because CCP will no longer be making a game ‘worth’ gaming.

“Second -- it would further widen the gap between veteran players and novice players.”

Second -- Not necessarily. It all depends on how it’s implemented… we all know this, the players ‘gaming the game’ notwithstanding. Instead of the crews being treated as ‘just another module’, why not factor in their… human… qualities? And factor in that a Noob Starship Captain in EvE has almost no skills… so what, or more likely who, could make up for that lack onboard ship? The crew… but in New Eden, as an Immortal Capsuleer Starship Captain gains skills his need for crew reduces.

By the time he becomes a fully versed and well skilled (IE some TBD SP level = Veteran) pilot, he has reduced his crew needs to just the absolute bare minimum needed to keep things running during midwatch (the Capt’s downtime). So the Noob or newer pilots will be able to take advantage of (and benefit more from) greater bonuses from a skilled crew, or from investing in skilling up a crew, than any Vet can no matter how much a Vet may want to… This means the SP level will be an ungamable bar to crew bonuses. This way, ‘Starship Crew’ can act as a skill leveler, to give Noobs vs. Vets a more level playing field. Not a ‘level’ field, just help to offset the gap between them as it exists now.

“Third -- CCP would have to decide if

(a) ships retained their crew statistics when traded or contracted.

Otherwise,

(b) what happens to your crew when the ship gets tossed into a carrier or the like?

(c)What would most likely happen to most of these high-bonus crews is that they'd soon find themselves in high-sec, being used to increase the efficiency of missioning and incursioning. Those would be the players most likely to have the ISK to spend on high-efficiency crews.

(d) Why risk a valuable asset in PvP when it can contribute to your money-making activities?”

Again, you are treating Crews as ‘just another module’ to be fitted to a ship… they are virtual PEOPLE so…

Third(a) - Of course not, the crew is gone. How you gonna have bonuses based on the crew if the crew is gone?? Sheesh.

Third(b) – Uh, they hit the rack, eat some chow, BS in the gangways, Sleep… but in the end, they reship WITH you. As to the mechanics, if you ‘leave’ ship in a station, eject in space, or ‘store’ your ship in a POS or an Orca or Carrier Your ‘trusted’ Virtual Officers are communication with your AI & pod and are updated as y=to your whereabouts and actions and therefore can plan accordingly.

OK, so what if you get podded? Then some percentage from 100 to 0 (more work for the Devs) survive depending on details such as ship type, tank type, incoming DPS… mebbe if you get blapped 0% live, but for a long slow death with ‘time’ for ejections, 100% then scaled accordingly.

OK so some percentage survive, you warp off in your pod and make your way to a station. Your ‘trusted’ Virtual Officers are, again as always, in communication with your AI & pod and can therefore plan accordingly. If you reship to a Noob ship, the required crew boards with you and the rest await orders or, let’s say for the sake of lore, the remainders take commercial flights back to your HQ or listed home port or whatever (and yes, they can get cloaky shuttles and meet you back in the hole if that’s your home).

So let’s leave the whole issue of ‘What happens to the crew when…’ at the fact that your Officers are doing their jobs (IE working as intended). They ensure that the crew you need is available to you no matter where you are or what you decide to do and they do it so it is invisible to you and not something you need to concern yourself with. That’s what their FOR anyway. So park your Drake in a Carrier and warp off to Jita in your pod and buy n fit that Damnation… the crew you need will be waiting to board with you and give their all once more.

Third(c) - Nope, only if a Noob was in high-sec and is using his crew to increase the efficiency of his missioning and incursioning. In which case, they would be working exactly as planned. Your, “…players most likely to have the ISK to spend on high-efficiency crews…” would get “0” bonus from any crew they bought, no matter how expensive, except the top two Officers.

Third(d) - Why are you spending your ISK on an asset that give you no bonus? UNLESS you are a noob, IE Low skilled new player. Now if you ARE a noob, why the ISK spent on a skilled crew might just level that playing field a bit when Incursioning or if you do run into one of those older high skilled players.

So Yes, Crewmembers (notice the SINGULAR there?) would maintain their stats, but again, as they are virtual PEOPLE, they too have ‘choice’ (built into the mechanic) and so they would only offer their ‘services’ to ‘skill appropriate’ Pilots. MORE Crewmembers would be available to lower skilled pilots but Higher Skilled Pilots would be able to ‘hire’ fewer Crewmembers, as they do not ‘need’ as many and whose skills would not carry as much bonus due to the Higher Skilled Pilot’s higher skills… confused yet? It’s a converse curve.

So let’s say a player has a full crew for a BC and his skills finally pass their bonus points... what happens? They ride along in his ships, reshipping from ship to ship as the Crew Complement Manifest orders… doing fuk all except eating and sleeping and searching for the Hookers they KNOW you have onboard somewhere… but they don’t help you fly the ship any better or warn you of anything when you are AFK (Away F__king Kendra, the Little Helper)… nope they just stare out the portholes, cringe and hope you’ll save them as the Catalysts close to optimal and lock Blasters…

The lower your skills the MORE crew you can HIRE and the higher they bonus your ship and fit…

The higher your skills the LESS crew you can HIRE and the less they bonus your ship and fit…

Plus the Crews would be consistent, IE a Crew Compliment, UNLESS sold or given away stays with you as individuals in a crew, depending on ship type. Your Officers and any Specialist Rates for a given role will reship with you no matter where you are.

You Hire (buy) each Crewmember you need for each role you need. You ONLY hire an Exec (Executive Officer) and COB (Chief of the Boat) ONCE (unless they die), you hire your basic Ships Company only ONCE (again unless they die) because they transfer from ship to ship with you when you reship (obviously). Then you hire Specialty Crewmembers as you for new modules etc. and they remain your crew and board any ships that are fitted with the modules they support.

Say you pass the skills for a CovOps, you can fly it, you can fit and launch Probes and a CovOps Cloak… just barely, but you can. OK, you buy a CovOps TII Frigate, say a Cheetah… you are reminded at the point of sale that you might want to consider hiring Stealth and Scanning Crewmen to help you run your Launcher & Probes and the Cloak ‘better’… Oh right, you look up the Crew bonuses, they are percent increases but decent percents so you ‘Hire’ the required Crewmembers, lets day a Lieutenant and two supporting Ensigns for each Module. Cool now they, depending on their skills (which you buy and they train) (IN REAL TIME, but slightly faster than you as they are specialists) they now give you increased bonuses in operational skills. Oh and if you really want to you can still fit and run the Cloak and Probe Launcher without them… you do not HAVE to buy and train crew… it is just HIGHLY recommended.

I hear you ask “So as you skill up to L5 do their bonuses increase your abilities PAST L5?” Of course not silly wabbit, what happens is eventually you skill PAST their bonuses and so no longer NEED them. I figure you should pass their bonuses (when they are at their L5) when you reach your L3. The max Crew can bonus you get from your L1 is equal to (as they skill up) upwards of L3 (maybe L4 depending on module or skill) but when you reach your personal L3 (or 4) regardless, Crew no longer give you ANY bonuses.

The only crew I see a capsuleer keeping for life is your Exec and COB. Why? Well, it’s a STARSHIP fer the Gods sake OK??? I mean damn man… think about it… it’s a FRAKKIN HUGE STARSHIP. Even the very best automation breaks down or at least needs some intelligent supervision… Could be a little help might not hurt doncha think? Let’s say, you have an Exec and a COB and they have a very high, but not 100%, chance of making it out when things to tits up for you… mostly because the bad guys are so desperate to get YOUR pod, ok? So you have had these guys flying with you for months… hell, years… I feel they should give you a 1 or 2% bump in your Starship Command skill and mebbe one other you get to pick, Engineering or Upgrades or somesuch.

And what if you get them killed out in the cold, hard, harsh black? Well, you lose that 1 to 2% skill bump until your ‘noob’ Exec or COB are (1) trained and (2) experienced. And ‘Hire’ an L5 one and you still have to wait for months before you see even 1%... Experience counts for more than books. Oh and let’s throw this last little tweak in for good measure… a little more Fog Of War for thine enemies and thee…

Let’s have your Exec and COB both eject in PODs along with you when your ‘Invincible Fleet Issue Stabber of Justik’ assplodes into a white triangle inna fast dissipating cloud of debris… Each is clearly marked and theirs warps off using the same mechanics as yours and they have to dock up and shit same as you… could be interesting now couldn’t it?

So, you have this Crew… buncha skilled Officers and Ensigns and you don’t need em anymore so you ‘Release’ them from their contract with you and they are once more lookin for work. Are they still a Crew? No they revert back to individual Crewmen. Do they keep their skills? Yes of course, when you leave a job do you suddenly ‘tard up? Sheesh… the things people ask…

And Forth -- You see that Vets wouldn’t WANT to ‘Hire’ crewmembers they have no use for (no bonuses past L3 remember)… and Noobs can work towards either hiring ‘new’ Crew and training them up themselves or throw down some BIG ISK (‘big’ for the Noob that is) and ‘Hire’ a much more expensive but highly trained Crew looking for a Captain and a ship to take them away from the hum-drum of dirtside existence. As the Noobs skill up they can release their old crewmembers [sell them] for profit or transfer them [pass them on] to friends who are new to EvE and can use a good trained crew…

Jester, I do think this could work, I do believe that it could be a great mechanic for assisting noobs to make it up the steepest part of the learning cliff and  I do believe the players will try and game it… so what? That’s what EvE Players do… right?

So, I say that one possibility CCP should consider for the future growth of EvE, not a full Expansion but as a major part of an Expansion is the addition of “Ship Crews” as a game mechanic. A new mechanic that adds interesting complexity to the game, adds to the Lore and immersion (for them as like that) and that gives new players a mechanic to assist them as they work their way up the EvE Learning Cliff.

Fly safe and see you in the Sky… =/|)=

==========================================

The following is probably a lot of TL;DR for most of you, hence it’s addition as a PS down here… Please feel free to scroll though of skip completely, I have made the point I was aiming for above, the rest is my muse squeezing fascinatingly complex (and I am sure for most of you, boring) details of this idea outta my head…

You would have a lot of crew to pick from too. They would be made up of the various vocations, trades, ranks and rates. And they would also be from the different races, with slightly different bonuses depending on Race & Bloodline… and from the different Factions too, (yes, ‘Faction’ Officers and Crew…) very costly as they are veterans [pre-skilled] and have very specific, and slightly higher, bonuses.

The following is just a first swipe at it so I may have missed some particulars… the point of the following exercise was not to be complete, or offer anything I expect to ever see ingame, it is to show the level of complexity possible and how such a mechanic ‘might’ work… it’s an IDEA people…

Oh and no, you will not have to buy and train 6000 to 10,000 crew for a Titan… just the crew as laid out here will suffice. Command Officers, then Division Officers with at most two rates under them should suffice. As for the other thousands of crew on a Titan… let’s leave them in the care of the Command Crew… IE Not YOUR problem but a pretty good reason to hire Command staff huh? And lastly this is a mechanic NO ONE has to buy into or use same as Role Playing or the Lore… Not even those new to the game who can actually benefit from “Ship’s Crew” have to use them… it’s a sandbox… Noob to Bitter Vet, we all get to pick and choose how, and with whom, we fly the deadly skies of EvE…

***CONCORD WARNING***

The General Populace is Strongly Cautioned NOT to use Capsuleer Services for

personnel or as personal transport 98% and higher mortality rates are common.

NOTE: Amarrian Ships utilize Slavers and Slaver Hounds to control and manage Elite Slaves & Slaves that are used for a number of menial and dangerous tasks. These same tasks are handled by Drones in the Navies of the Gallente, Caldarii and Matarii.

NOTE: Capsuleers do not seem to follow any racial standards, patterns or laws in regard to the treatment of Slaves and supercargo.

==========================================

CONCORD Crew Requirements for Newly Graduated Capsuleer Starship Captains

Crew Requirements for All Ship types; Frigates to Titans:

Command = Officers - Exec & Departmental Command (Ship Overall efficiency rating)

Defense = Offensive Weapons, Drones & Defense Modules - Ranks & Rates (Dept efficiency rating)

Engineering = Propulsion & Life Support - Ranks & Rates (Dept efficiency rating)

Quartermaster Corp = (Internal crew & ship Maintenance) Officers, Ranks & Rates (Ship Overall and Dept efficiency rating) [The Cost of Doing Serious Internet Spaceship Business]

Carriers, Supercarriers:

Command = CAG (Commander Air Group), Fighter Pilots - (Dept efficiency rating)

Defense = Fighter Support Crew - Ranks & Rates (Dept efficiency rating)

Titans, Cyno’s, and all Jump Capable Command ships:

Command = Officers - Cynosural Departmental Command - (Dept efficiency rating)

Cynosural Dept = Cyno Support Crew - Ranks & Rates (Dept efficiency rating)

Tactical Warfare: (all Offensive Weapon Systems)

Command = Officers - Defense Departmental Command - (Dept efficiency rating)

Projectile Turrets = Gun Crews - Ranks & Rates (Dept efficiency rating)

Energy Turrets = Laser Crews - Ranks & Rates (Dept efficiency rating)

Hybrid Turrets = Hybrid Crews - Ranks & Rates (Dept efficiency rating)

Launchers = Missile Crews - Ranks & Rates (Dept efficiency rating)

Combat Drones = Drone Crews - Ranks & Rates (Dept efficiency rating)

Electronic Warfare: (all Ewar/Stealth/Scanning Systems)

Command = Officers - EWar Departmental Command - (Dept efficiency rating)

ECM Dept = ECM Support Crew - Ranks & Rates (Dept efficiency rating)

ECCM Dept = ECCM Support Crew - Ranks & Rates (Dept efficiency rating)

EWar Drones = EWar Drone Support Crew - Ranks & Rates (Dept efficiency rating)

Tactical Dept. = (Web & Point) Tactical Support Crew - Ranks & Rates (Dept efficiency rating)

Tracking & Painting Dept. = Tracking Support Crew - Ranks & Rates (Dept efficiency rating)

Sensors Dept. = Sensor Support Crew - Ranks & Rates (Dept efficiency rating)

Scanning Dept. = Scan & Probe Support Crew - Ranks & Rates (Dept efficiency rating)

Stealth Dept. = Stealth Support Crew - Ranks & Rates (Dept efficiency rating)

Logistics:

Command = Officers - Logistics Departmental Command - (Dept efficiency rating)

Remote Repair Dept. = (Armor & Shield)) RR Support Crew - Ranks & Rates (Dept efficiency rating)

CAP Transfer Dept. = CAP Support Crew - Ranks & Rates (Dept efficiency rating)

Logistic Drones = Logi Drone Support Crew - Ranks & Rates (Dept efficiency rating)

Industrials: (Mining, Haulers & Freight)

Command = Officers - Freight Logistics/Mining Departmental Command - (Dept efficiency rating)

Tractors & Salvagers = Salvage Support Crew - Ranks & Rates (Dept efficiency rating)

Freight Dept. = Freight Specialists Crew - (Amarr-Slaves) Ranks & Rates (Dept efficiency rating)

Mining Dept. = Mining Specialists Crew (Amarr-Slaves) - Ranks & Rates (Dept efficiency rating)

Industrial Drones = Mining & Salvage Drone Support Crew - Ranks & Rates (Dept efficiency rating)

Additional Crew Requirements by Specialty

Rest & Recreation Command: (Hookers, Dancers & Pizza n Beer)

Command = Officers - R&R Departmental Command - (Dept efficiency rating)

Civilian Rates/Employees:

Passenger Dept = Cruise Director - Civilian Employee in Charge - (Dept efficiency rating)

Entertainment = Exotic Dancers (Amarr-Slaves) - Civilian Employees/Charges/Slaves (Ship Overall efficiency rating)

Janitorial = Janitorial Staff (Amarr-Slaves) - Civilian Employees/Slaves (Dept efficiency rating)

Civilian Passengers:

Tourists/Passengers/Science Graduates/ Freed Slaves/ Refugees/Homeless

==========================================

So, what you end up with is a crew complement that you Hire to (1) fulfill your ships base requirements and then additional crew as needed depending on your Skills and your Fit.

Let’s take for example a simple CovOps Frigate fit for stealth and probe scanning with a new Pilot who has the lowest possible skills to Fly and use those Mods. He ‘can’ fit and fly with the skills he has but, ‘if’ he hires crew, he gets immediate bonuses in module use and if he trains the Crew-members he can train his toon up in other areas and still receive skill level bonuses of up to +1 to 2 Skill Levels as long as his crew-members survive…

For the CovOps at base skills, he would need a bare minimum of:

Base Crew Requirement - Covert Operations Scanning & Scout Frigate/TII:

Command = Officers:

Captain (Capsuleer Command Pilot)

1- Executive Officer (Commander Grade)

1- Chief of the Boat - CWO (Chief Warrant Officer)

Defense Dept.

1 - Lieutenant per Defense Fitted [EX: 1 – Std Missile Battery]

2 - Ensigns per Officer

Engineering Dept.

1 - Lieutenant - Propulsion

2 - Ensigns;

1 - Lieutenant - Life Support

2 - Ensigns

Quartermaster Corp:

1 - Quartermaster

2 - Ensigns          

14 Total Officers (6) and Crew (8) = Basic Ship’s Company

Additional Crew Requirements by Specialty

Stealth Dept.:

1 - Lieutenant - Cloaking

2 - Ensigns

Scanning Dept.:

1 - Lieutenant – Dscan & Probes

2 - Ensigns          

20 Total - Officers (8) plus Crew (12) = Total Ship’s Company

OK, so what if the Pilot has all CovOps & related skills to L5? Same ship, same fit… Then the Pilots skills exceed any possible bonus given by any crew except…

L5 ranked Veteran Crew Requirement - Covert Operations Scanning & Scout Frigate/TII:

Command = Officers:

Captain (Capsuleer Command Pilot)

1- Executive Officer (Commander Grade) [small % bonus in Ship Command]

1- Chief of the Boat - CWO (Chief Warrant Officer) [small % bonus in Ship Command]

2 Total - Officers (3)

==========================================

So, as you can see, some lines, curves and graphs (everyone loves graphs!) would need to be drawn up and tweaked and balanced and rebalanced as regards Toon Skills/Crew Size & Skills but that’s one for the Devs at CCP to worry over…

Me, I just write what my muse tell me to.

o7

EvE Solitaire...

~or~ What do You do When Yer All Alone… in Space?

Something occurred to me last night after another slam-dunk, almost boring, C6 Sleeper Escalation Farming run. We ran five sites which are currently being ‘farmed’ in our homehole. By this I mean the age old farming mechanics apply to Sleeper sites same as they apply to any non-mission ratting site. You simply don’t kill all-the-things (leave at least one Sleeper ship in site) and come back the next day and re-not-kill-all-the-things… what you get on from second day on is pure BS spawns… nuthing but Sleeper Gold raining down from the black.

You initially warp in a Cap (Carrier or Supercarrier) who acts as Anchor & Capitol RR and who triggers the initial BS wave then all Subcaps are immediately ordered in. These are usually T3’s fitted as Webbers 1st, and Painters 2nd, and initially fulfill the Frig & Cruiser Killer squad role. They tackle and eliminate the Frigs and Cruisers, many of which Web, Neut and Scram and ‘can’ effectively slow down the overall Op once the Dreads are called in and hence need to be removed mainly to increase the fleet’s effectiveness against the BS’s.

Once the FC determines the Frigs & Cruisers are effectively nullified, he calls in the Dreads. Now the Subcaps role changes to one of Dread Support. By this I mean that while the Dreads can put out really amazing DPS… as Dreads their tracking is obviously not good against medium and high transversal so you have your subcaps, fast Legions, Lokis, etc., Webbers and Painters in the Role of Dread Support which tackle and paint the Sleepers BS’s to allow the Dreads to blap them. It is basically a PvP tactic brought into PvE due to the Sleeper AI being so much more ‘lifelike’. As the site progresses the FC will call in more Caps to trigger the Capitol Escalations and thereby give us the maximum Sleeper BS spawns possible per site hence maximizing the possible ISK payout derived from the only way one makes ISK in holes… Loot & Salvage.

So last night during the site run I had left the command deck to refresh my drink, as my curvy blondacious Ensign was, as always for some unknown reason, down in the cargo hold so I had to do this for myself… when I returned to my (perfect copy of Cpt. Kirk’s) command chair I verified that I was;

...I was still safely inside rep range of the 2 main RR Caps;

...my armor was bouncing between 80 to 100% as usual depending on incoming DPS/reps;

...my CAP was bouncing between 0 to 100% as usual depending on incoming Neuts/reps;

...the ship I was active on when I got up was gone, as expected, so I put painter/web/web/ on the next target in the Tag List, checked range and if in gun range, I add my DSP for the LoLz.

Then I sat back, sipped my sweet sweet southern iced Tea and it hit me… I was missioning again. Now don’t get me wrong, these are great guys, I am making AMAZING ISK, I would not play EvE in any other venue… but… it used to be a challenge. C6 Sleepers were the Holy Grail for we who live on the other side of the sky… we were a small corp making our way alone in the deadliest space in EvE. It was hard, it was dangerous, it was a challenge… it had been a challenge… it is no longer a challenge… huh.

My ‘normal’ EvE day’... wake up in my comfortable quarters in my cloaked Hound, check in with the bridge to ensure we are cloaked, at station keeping and ask for the MidsRep (midwatch report). I dress and head up to the galley, grab a bite and a cuppa while reading the MidRep then head on up to the bridge. I take the Con and have Lt. Uhura (if you sit the THAT chair <points>, then THAT’s your name!) open Comms with corp and Alliance, then I ask Spock (<points> THAT chair! THAT name! and where are your rubber ears Mister?) to open video comms with the various POCOs where our PI is being done. I then spend approximately 15 to 30 mins making the necessary logistics orders and changes for the day.

Once PI Logistics is done we warp to the Alpha Docking Point in our Med POS (meh) and reship to my Prowler. Then we head out hitting each POCO in turn, transporting products from and to the POCOs as needed then end the circuit back at the Alpha Docking Point, transfer Final Products to outbound shippin crates, store excess P2 Prods for the next run then… then…

It’s the ‘then’ that gets me. I am on COMMS with the Alliance and corp. We say ‘Yo, what’s up?” and unless there is an active or planned Op, be it sites a merc Op or a ToO or a Roam on there is not much to DO… Now don’t get me wrong, there are sites, merc Ops, ToOs and Roams… you’ve read of the one’s I have been in and I have had an AMAZING time and look forward to more amazing times, but these are not ‘on’ 23/7/365 (or more realistically for me, 2 to 4/7/3howevermany…). Goons mebbe can have some kinda Op going on 23/7/365, but SYJ as a middling sized Alliance simply cannot. We don’t cover all times zones or even ‘all’ of the western time zones we are mainly in and we don’t have the active membership to run continuous ops for even that time … so, unless there IS an Op either in the works or in progress… well, there’s PI, scanning for mining sites and mining if any exist (which the dedicated SYJ miners are fairly good at hammering into dust..), or… going out to find something to do… IE leaving the hole…

Huh, WHAT!? Leave the hole in order to find something to do? LEAVE the hole?? I’ve never had to leave the hole in order to find something to DO. In the past I left the hole ONLY to sell or buy shit but never in order to have something to DO. And so, having done my PI for the day, having finished any sites I was able to join in on… I find myself sittin, doing fuk all, listening on Alliance comms praying something will ‘turn up’… as I listen I realize quite a number of my Allies ARE out of the hole in some-other-sec doing other stuff. The hole has become a place to ‘work’ and make ISK but not, necessarily, a place to ‘play’ as such. Oh we do have a ‘moment’ every now and again like the night a solo player jumped into the Hornets’ nest…

One of our scouts jumped out of our static and landed on a Golem who was just sitting there.., he cried “Tackle” and then for backup! and the Golem jumped the hole to get AWAY from the attack, and right into SYJs holehome… ZOMG! He must have pissed his pants when he hit Dscan… sooooo many Towers, sooooo many Forcefields, sooooooooo many ships… LOL. Well he tried, gotta give him that, he started warping celestial to celestial and we started chasing him like an old Keystone Cops movie… it was hilarious. I reshipped to my ‘Sword and bubbled the Static while the rest settled down and began to systematically go after him… and finally he did land on one of us, “POINT!” “Web!” “Warp to ME!” and we did… and he died.  =]  and so I was in on my first ever Golem kill…  HAHA!

So my issue is not that there is ‘nothing’ to do, its how do you fill the time, sometimes hours, between sites and Ops and ToOs etc. EvE is a social game… we are a small yet very social corp, in what seems to be a middling social Alliance. By that I mean my corp, HBHI, is mainly my son, our CEO, a RL Marine corpmate of his and myself at the Director level and a few very close ingame friends. Being a small corp we are all comfortable with the solo game because we are not all on at the same time etc. We also greatly enjoy those times we are all on together mainly due to the fact that they are somewhat rare, or at least not common to the point of getting under each other’s skin.

SYJ is, IMHO, a middling social Alliance (which I see as a good thing) because while we have 15 corps w/ 500+ members (alts + live) our Comms server is not swamped and yet most of the time in our main TZ times there are a very good number of people on and active and involved. Most can usually be in one room all together and still manage to have a good ‘conversational flow’ without too much ‘walking on each other’ as can happen with too high a number in chan.

I have found the FCs to be knowledgeable and experienced and easy to fly for. PvE is, well, easy… once they approve your fit for the fleet intended and once you have flown a site or 2 you can easily settle into the routine, understand your role and how to effectively add to the overall fleet goals. PvP is, of course, more fluid and requires a bit more leeway on the individuals part, but you still have to be able to understand the FC, his calls and goals, and so far I am more than happy with the SYJ FC’s I have flown with.

Yet… what do you do when all the scanning is done, all your PI is done, all sites have been done, there are no Ladars/Gravs on scan… what do you DO in a wormhole? As far as I can tell… many leave and look for PvP solo or in small gangs (corpmates who are close and like to fly together) in lowsec or even run missions or mine or… YUCH! OMG I live inna C6 wormhole but because we do it SO well I have to go to EMPIRE to find something to do… effin yuch.

I was ‘trapped’ in Empire recently… IE we had no decent pipes back to home for a few days, or they were closed by others or whatever, but the point was when I was on there was no way back… I was told by an Ally “It’s no prob man, there are ways to make ISK in Hisec.” I almost logged off right then. Now I don’t ‘hate’ hisec… I just cannot spend up to 2 hours or so flying solo, killing NPCs with a Dessie to make what, 2 mISK, mebbe 4m for my efforts after spending approx two hours flying against NPCs that can PWN me in my best ship and fly with some of the best guys I have met ingame yet AND making 100 to 180 mISK in that time. It’s…. it’s…. slumming… it’s degrading, it’s embarrassing, but most of all… it’s BORING… to me.

So, I need to fill the time between my group game, PI and my social game. Ok, what’s left? What have I not tried in EvE? Well, let’s see what I have… Started as a noob, did missions up to L4, L1& 2 solo, L3 & 4 inna group. They were good days… the salad days… when we were young and everything we did was an adventure. That was before we found wormholes… when that happened we really though we had come of age as twere. The ISK we made in the C1 was, to us, simply amazing… I ‘made’ my first personal 100mISK in the C1 that wasn’t tied to a Faction Drop.

I learned Salvaging there, the skill I thought would last me my whole game and did last as a prime part of my game until we moved to null. Little did I know that later on salvaging, at least in Empire, would be nerfed all to hell… that was hard for me to take. I really enjoyed running a Noctis, putting my skills to work for kith and corp…  Strangely while I broke my first personal 1bISK in Null, I hated it. I felt trapped the whole time and for the first time ran into the ‘if everything you can do solo is done and the group isn’t doing anything… what to do, what to do?” Boredom had set it. I may have had a bil in the wallet but it was hard to spend and deadly, not just dangerous to bring ‘home’ the fruits of one’s labor.

So back to Anoikis ran I… and home again I was. And Salvaging again was important, but after my corpmates rejoined me and we setup home in the C3 all of them had skilled up to L5 in Salvaging and they developed a tactic that was faster and safer then “Bring in the Noctis!”… they ran in Marauders such as the Vargur which gives a 100% bonus to Tractor Beams and has can fit only 4 guns leaving 3 open hislots… so they tractored as they looted as they salvaged as they ran the sites… I had to agree this was far better but… it left me only adding my DPS to the game so I was personally ‘nerfed’. Later we did try tractoring all the wrecks together into a Wreck Ball while looting and then dropping (me) in an all 8 Salvage fit Noctis that nommed through them so fast it was really funny… but, I and they, knew it (1) put a Noctis in harm’s way and in doing so, (B) put our salvage at risk too… and they only did it to mollify me, not a good reason to risk our only source of income in the C3.

Then we got perma-camped by SYJ, we saw they were good at their game and also decent and honorable mercs and so we joined with them. It was around this time that I decided, finally, on Tur’s new specialty... Ewar & Logi. I have taken a few steps towards that and I liked it. So my skill Q is now geared towards all aspects of Ewar first and then all aspects of subcap Logi second.

In the course of these last 2 plus years I have mined enough to know where I stand on that as an occupation of any length. I have missioned and run Sleepers and cannot go ‘back’ to missioning. I AM getting more involved in PvP BUT that is somewhat dependent on the ‘group’ in here mostly… The problem as I see it with Leaving The Hole to Do Other Things is the whole “An Op is up, X in fleet!” and there is either no pipe OR there is one… 35 hops away and it’s close to crit… “Ya better hurry Tur.” …fukme. And yea, I have heard just that happen on Comms more’n once.

But I have to admit, I am now wondering if… just IF Tur should go buy up some cheap ships and really take to losing them in earnest in some solo PvP or see if some Allies are runnin round lowsec soon… Now, if I could only find ‘Earnest’ on DotLan…   =]

Fly Safe and see you in the Sky  =/|)=

The New Eden Propaganda Vulnerability Test…

or~  BB 45: Propaganda

"This edition of the Blog Banter is forged from suggestions from #tweetfleet members @KaedaMaxwell, @RocWieler and @TigerlilyFenix.

In a socially-driven game environment such as EVE Online's, everyone has an agenda. CCP promotes its products and has an army of volunteers to do the same; corporations and alliances deliver entertaining recruitment drives, CSM election candidates solicit for voter favor, bloggers and podcasters opine to their audiences.

In this intricate web of communication, influence and control, “what part does propaganda play in your game?”

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I had not been having much luck coming up with ‘words’ for this one… Propaganda does not work well on those who are capable and prepared for it. Hence it does not play a ‘part’ as such in my personal game and HBHI does not propagandize or even advertise. SYJ does not either, what propaganda they put out is written on the side of their missiles and projectiles… we send our propaganda the old fashioned way… with DPS!! HAHA! Anyway…

Then I re-read my post on Mittens the Goonborn v the EVEborn (Borgin For the LULZ…) this connected in my mind with my brief, unpleasant yet sickening foray onto James315’s blog… and my muse cried “Ah HAH!” grabbed my brain with both hands and squeezed... and the words just started to flow…

Now, you may be asking what I meant by “Propaganda does not work well on those who are capable and prepared for it”… to wit: 

By “capable” I mean a person who is self confident in his own morals, beliefs and personal understanding of right & wrong… IE, someone who is comfortable with his understanding of the differences between Good & Bad as he sees it, his personal Rules-of-Conducts (RoC) as twere.

By “prepared” I mean a person who looks at all communication with a care… with a pound or two of the old ‘grain-of-salt’ as they say… someone who compares what he hears and reads against his own moral compass and beliefs and RoC and then makes his own decisions.

This person is comfortable going against the tide of the group or even mass opinion if it does not adhere to his personal RoC. He accepts that this may put him in danger, that this decision will most likely have costs and consequences. He accepts these as the cost of personal integrity. If you ever made a decision that went against your friends, your ‘group’ or your family because of the ‘principle of the thing’… then you know the persona of whom I speak. However… if you have always followed the herd, stayed with the group, caved to peer pressure and done-what-yer-told… then you know well the mind of that great mass of people that propaganda is aimed at, and works on so well… like these guys here…

The bulk of the Goons (not all, not all) are just such types I am willing to believe. To stay with the heard, to remain in the group, to be “accepted” by your peers is a very very strong force in human nature. Plus keep in mind the “Goon Born” vs the “EVE Born”… Goons are inculcated into the herd BEFORE they join EVE Online… they, and I quote La Mittens one-more-time: (excerpt from “The EVE-Born”)

“The experience of a new Goonswarm player is radically different from that of the EVE-born.”

”…when they install the game they are an extension of an existing community [that takes precedence over the EVE community]…”

“Rather than learning the basics alone in hisec, on their first day newbie Goons podjump to deep nullsec. There, they are surrounded by their fellows, ushered into massive alliance warfleets, mentored by veteran players, and showered with ISK and ships.”  [brackets mine]

Thus being PRE-propagandized and inculcated into the Goon mindset and culture prior to joining EVE leads to this:

“A community-born [Goonborn] player is able to entirely skip the dreaded ‘mining veld in a Bantam’ phase. Instead of a positive kill/death ratio, external communities place a greater value on enthusiasm and a willingness to die for the group.”

“In practice, this means that Goons, Broskis and Redditors can be outright bastards to everyone else in the EVE - besides their allies, of course - and get away with it. The game’s normal culture of honor doesn’t apply…” [brackets mine]

That pretty much sums up my argument… If you can CONTROL a person’s access to information from cradle to grave, (and from virtual cradle to virtual grave) you can exert a form of ‘mind control’, IE ‘will control’. If you control what they understand about a given situation, you can control their reactions to a given situation… and thereby control the mob. And the political mob and tactical mob (IE Blob) in EVE can be a very powerful force.

There are those who will argue that Goons, being people in RL who have access to the ‘Net and all it contains cannot be ‘brain washed’ or ‘mind controlled’ because they have free access to more information than any other group at any other time in the history of the world… I agree and this is true, but I am not arguing that they are all poor North Korean Trolls (not the forum kind, I mean the mindless horde kind) who have never had access to a radio much less the ‘Net…

My argument is that propaganda’s main weapon, “Go along with ‘us’ or be cast OUT!” works on mature and semi-mature people and that no matter how much information you have access to, if one’s beliefs are set (early in the Reddit/Broski/Goon forum crèche/Madrasa) then just having access to counter information rarely changes a person’s world view, be that world real or virtual. No, the truly Goonborn see all counter data as ‘propaganda’ against their kind… and react with aggression and hatred against it Irregardless of truth or right & wrong.

As I said before, to stay with the heard, to remain in the group, to be “accepted” by your peers is a very very strong force in human nature. Propaganda plays directly to this strong emotional force… one old time proven example is…

“YOU will burn for ETERNITY in HELL if you don’t toe the (insert religion of your choice) line!!!!”

The corollary being the…

“ALL the rest of us GOOD people will lay in comfort on clouds, LOL at you while eating grapes from the hands of nubile, randy, horney virgins FOREVER because we were good and did as (insert religion of your choice) told us to."

On an aside, and a question for the student:

“Why do the Jihadists get to have sex in heaven while Christians of all colors evidently don’t?”
Answer: DAMN good piece of propaganda right there all by itself.

So, on to the New Eden Propaganda Vulnerability Test…

It’s quite simple really. You see there is a new political movement in New Eden, oh it’s actually an age old movement really, but it is being dressed and dolled up and trotted out like it’s something new. And it has a new charismatic Führer… oh, umm, I meant leader… who is using all the time honored skills and tools of propaganda to further his personal goals and agenda… I of course speak of James 315, his cult of The New Order and his run for CSM8 on a platform of ultimately, “Ridding Hisec of The Carebear Menace.” (nope no links, go look ‘im up yerself…) I give you just a small taste if what James315 is all about…

The test? Go and read a few posts on Minerbumping.com then score yourself below:

(1) If you find you are stunned by the utter lack of any actual intelligent reasoning and or any ‘real’ content in any post on his site, give yourself a score of ‘1’ [Not gullible].

You are a mature and intelligent person capable and prepared to make your own decisions.

(2) If you can continue to read after 2 full posts or more, and you find yourself, against your better judgment mind you (that queasy feeling in the pit of your stomach), asking yourself if there really might be something worthwhile there… give yourself a score of ‘2’, [Potentially Gullible].

You may possibly be gullible to rhetoric and propaganda and cults etc., etc. If you stop, take a good hard look at your values and the teachings of your family and culture, if you are willing to stand up for what you know is right, then you can still take full control of yourself and your life… but, you are at risk.

(3) If you not only can read several of James315’s posts back to back but find yourself grinning and LOLing a little and agreeing with ‘any’ part of his rhetoric… if you see ALL those people who have contributed and commented so positively as being any kind of recommendation of his position or platform, give yourself a score of ‘3’, [Gullible].

You are someone who can be swayed by public opinion (real or made up), you are someone who looks to the crowd for guidance and who wants to be accepted and one-of-the-guys more than you care about right and wrong… you are very much at risk of being nothing more than a follower and a hanger-on.

(4) If, after reading a few posts, you feel a strong need to look up James315’s other rhetoric and posts on forums and elsewhere, if you decide to send him ISK, if you post a comment in support of his policies… give yourself a score of ‘4’ [Fully Gullible]

And relax… you are not at risk, you are, or will be one day soon, a good mindless sheep, a follower of others thoughts and fulfiller of others needs and desires living your life in lockstep with legions of mindless masses… In fact, once you spent some time on James315’s site I doubt you came back here at all…

Fly Safe and see you in the Sky  =/|)=

NOTE: If, as you read this, you saw just how blatantly I tried to propagandize my beliefs and feelings against all that James 315 and his ilk stand for, then you pass, have a cookie.

If you didn’t, well… James is always looking for a few good sycophants.

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