or~ You Can Warp,
But You Can’t Hide!
 |
| CONCORD Traffic Control. The Owners of Local. |
Blog Banter 44: Is There Anybody Out There?
A conversation, led by the literary pugilist Poetic
Stanziel and fiction champion Rhavas, has been rumbling in the bowels of the
blogosphere for a few days now. Due to popular demand, for posterity and for
the attentions of CCP Sisyphus of Team Pulmonary Embolism Player Experience, I
have been asked to envelop this discussion into a Blog Banter. The community
has spoken and so Drackarn has provided the following question:
"The local chat channel provides EVE players with an
instant source of intel of who is in the system. With a quick glance you can
tell who is in system and what your standings are to them. War targets, hated
enemies, friends and corp mates all stand out clearly. Is this right?"
"Should we have
access to this intel for free with no work or effort? Should the Local chat
channel even exist? Should normal space be more like wormhole space where the
Local channel appears empty until someone speaks?"
=======================================
Get yer high-waters on.. I’ma wade out into waters I have
muddled in afore…
I recently received a comment on an older post of
mine.. Rhavas
it seems had found much in it to his liking and asked if it was ok to use the
pic he had already stolen and posted on THE INTERNET!!! … umm, yea ok…
(wow, somebody actually asked… AND attrib’ed me too… How can this be? An honest
man, in EVE!?!? …say ‘taint so!) =]
Anyhoo, this naturally led to me
reading his very thought provoking (and BTW also his 100th) post and thence to
following links to many good words on the same topic by Poetic,
Hermit,
Mary
Titor (now on my blogroll) and my good
friend Scientist,
and… your humble host, moi.…
since then my corpmate Mabrick
has weighed in, Tigerears has added her Ms
Pennysworth's to the discussion… and more and more
bloggers have vigorously applied their grey matter to this grey area… Seems we
may have had our first ever “Grass Roots Blog Banter” in progress… and as you can see, Stan even jumped in and made it official. =]
(Ok, ready? doubt it…)
A Little Background on “Local” as I understands it...
The technology infrastructure for “local” as it
exists now is based on (1) the Neocom and (2) Stargates & Stations.
The "Neocom" is an instantaneous FTL
communications system allowing connectivity between Stargates that are able to
‘reach’ each other (IE in ‘range’, meaning the one’s they can send/receive
to/from) and all the Stations in a given system. This is the “Local Communication
Link” or, LCL [acronym mine] usually just
called “local”.
As each gate and station crew (the ever affable
Docking Manager Scotty) handles Traffic Control and records the Approach;
Landing; Fight Plan Transmittal or Docking Request; Request for Jump Clearance;
Jump; Jump Landing; Request for Warp Clearance or Undock Clearance and Warpout
for EACH and EVERY ship that passes through them, and because LCL allows
instantaneous updates of these records to ALL gates in range and ALL Stations
inside each system, and because all ships 'have to be connected to the LCL' in
order to use the gates and stations, therefore all ships share these updates
and hence have ‘prefect intel’ on the ships that enter and leave a given
system. The Capsuleers (and NPC Crews) can also use the LCL to communicate with
anyone in the system.
In Anoikis, W-space, just jumping thru a wormhole
does not post yer pic and name up for all to see… why? No GATES… Naturally
occurring wormholes are not Neocom networked so once you jump through, you are
cut off from Empire LCL.
La Grande Image…
Rhavas kicked all
of this off with the statement that he is “…not entirely certain that “Local is broken”. As to the ‘broken’
part I say no (the over use of ‘broken’ in a statement about an EvE mechanic
one does not “like” T’s me off.. I RAIL against this abuse of language as it is
not ‘broken’… I can ‘use’ it just fine), but
it just may be, however ‘UNBALANCED’ at the least it is perceived that way
by a vocal segment of New Eden. OK, so not broken per se, but possibly
unbalanced… okay, to ‘splain…
The whole 'Local' issue is (for me also tied into the AFK
Cloaky, Cyno, and Blob Hotdrop issues)… is as always, really about the
universal PvE (risk adverse) player vs. PvP (risk inclined) player thing and
the game mechanics that help or hinder each in their preferred gameplay…
It is based in the methodologies, mechanics, strategies
and tactics of ‘safety’ in EvE and the methodologies, mechanics, strategies and
tactics of ‘aggression’ in EvE… boiled
down, it is the EvE version of “hide and seek”… but instead of “TAG yer IT!”
and a reset, the one found and tagged gets assploded, with a attendant cost in
ISK and time, and may also possibly win a free POD express trip to their clonehome…
so…
Motives and Motivations...
One of the things I find absolutely fascinating about EvE
is that players who are Miners and Industry types (not botters or RMTers) some
of whom really are deeply dyed-in-the-wool PvP adverse people, all still find
the size and openness of the market economy and the complexity and challenge of
being a successful Industry player in EvE fulfilling enough to make it worth
their limited play time to play EvE ‘their way’ even though it is such a well
known and blatant gankers paradise.
Now while I am quite sure that a really huge number of
mining Chars etc. are alts and ISKchars for null and lowsec PvP mains, and
another large segment are ISKchars/bots for non-players or RMTers, them as ‘game
the game’ but don't PLAY the game. I believe if you subtract them (the ISKbots,
RMTbots and ISKchars)… and from my time in EvE, on the forums, following blogs
and just gut feeling, I'd say 1/3 or less of mining Chars are full time real EvE
Miners who’s main playstyle and ingame enjoyment IS Mining and Industry.
But NONE of them… not a gods blessed ONE is going
to be lured into low or null to ultimately be targets for the Greiferbears.
Aint gonna happen, the Holy Balance Sheets have Calculated and Decreed. ONLY if
they are as safe as in Hisec… not MORE safe, just AS SAFE, and by this I mean
as “profitable” as hisec... then and ONLY then will you see more non-Alliance
mining move into lo and null… a few very salient points from Hermit …
“…(the
ubiquitous ‘they’) think local makes it too easy for people to avoid PVP.”
and…
“…is
it likely to increase, leave unchanged, or decrease the average population of
impacted systems?” This last point is important. ”Make each system a
nirvana for Pirates and you get, well, just Pirates."
The converse is true too…Make each system a
nirvana for Miners and you get, well, Miners and Industrialists and Market
Mavens, and Mission Runners and… oh, wait…” “A nirvana for Miners?” you cry! Yea… make it as safe as Hisec and
it’s just more hisec, make it SAFER than Hisec and the majority of carebears will
eventually move there.
And no matter how much ‘bettah’ ores you put in lo and
null, as long as a decent wage can be earned and a fulfilling time can be
played, miners and Indy types will STAY in safer space… “OK, you say with ebil grin, “So
keep slowly reducing the profits in Hi and slowly increasing them in low!” you
chuckle… “Slowly wean them off the Great
Teat of Hisec and let them come down sit
at the Big Peoples Table and feast in the Land of Plenty!” uh huh…
Change things until Hi is (still as safe
but) no longer ‘profitable’, Lo and Null possible revenues notwithstanding and all
you will is break their enjoyment in the game and their will-to-play… you will
drive them out of the game. Change things so the Holy Balance Sheet Says, “Not
Worth Undocking”… and they’ll simply unsub and play some other, more enjoyable
and fulfilling game.
Carebears are NOT IN IT FOR
Greiferbears ENJOYMENT. They are in it for the exact same reason Griefers are,
for their own personal enjoyment of the game and what they get out of it in
THEIR chosen playstyle. How many Greiferbears would rage quit
if CCP ever made EvE a PvP optional game? uh huh.. and how fast? Riiiight… Well,
take away the Carebears “enjoyment” and they will leave just as quickly and in
greater numbers.
OK, so if you follow me and IF you can accept and understand that we each play the game only so long as
it’s WORTH it to us as individuals. And as individuals we each have different
ways of enjoying our time in EvE, then.
Back to Main Topic…
How would changes to ‘local’ affect Grieferbears
griefin and Carebears bearing?
As
I see it, not much at all really. It is the DESIRE to
do a thing, not the ABILITY to do a thing that drives each of us. If you don’t really
WANT to do it (no matter what IT is) then you simply won’t, no matter the
incentive. And if you DO really want to do “it”, and “it” is no longer cost effective
or fun… well, there’s always Tanks.
So, ‘You’ want more players in Lo &
Null? Simple, give them a reason to WANT to go to Lo & Null. But to do
THAT, you have to understand their way of
thinking, thier way of playing the game, what drives them and what motivates
them and what they WANT out of the game… but as long as your only thought
is of YOUR desire to SHOOTZ them… there will never be a carrot big enough or
juicy enough to lure them anywhere… because you can’t offer them anything they want.
It’s really quite easy… leave and never come back
and they’ll come down in droves… but as long you are there, camping the gates
‘tween Hi and Lo and as long as what YOU want, to assplode them, is directly
opposed to what THEY want, to maximize their mining yield and ROI without
losing ships, getting PODDED and LOLed at… then you’ll never see any change at
all.
Make enough changes so they have little choice BUT
to mine in Lo & Null… and they’ll go play Tanks.
"Tur, you
make it seem hopeless… like Hisec will always be Paris or New York or London… Bright
Lights, Broadway, Banks, Cops, Crowds and Wall Street… Quafe N Hookers Baby!!! and Null will always
be vast, cold, lonely deserts populated by treacherous and vile hordes, gathering
together around scattered oases, tribes of thieves and assassins held together
by their shared ebil natures… and Lo will forever be… the slums of New Eden, a
no-man’s land roamed by loners and small gangs of petty thugs, errant highwaymen
and poor pirates who find neither home nor peace in the ‘Cities of Light’ or
the ‘Deserts of Darkness’… is this all we have to look forward to?”
Yea… pretty much sums it up. =\
[You may have
noticed that I left out Anoikis (IE W-space, IE wormholes…), that was on
purpose. We who choose to live on the other side of the sky are just-fine-thank-you-very-much.
We have need only of Empires markets and the great bags of ISK they freely give
for our rare and richly valued wares, so we can fill our wallets with ISK and
our POS bellies with the finest ships and food and luxuries…] =P
Now understand there still IS a ‘local’ channel… it
does exist but we have what is called ‘delayed local’… as long as you don’t
talk, you don’t show up in it. The ships, POSes, POCOs and PI Structures are
all Neocom linked and so there is a network, it just doesn’t include the
entrances and exits and cannot connect to Empire LCL.
So, in Empire only, LCL gives us:
(1) Accurate
intel on the number and names of the ‘pilots’ who are insystem and Real Time
updates as pilots enter and leave systems; with a pilots name,
you can do a quick records search and get detailed
info on the pilot, his current and past activities, current and past corps and
Alliances, etc.
(2) And
not much else really… huh. Granted it seems that’s enough to cause a Monsoon
inna Mug for some…
From LCL we know WHO (numbers and names) is in a
system with us and we get Real Time updates, IE the ever popular “Local Spike!”
when a fleet jumps in together and local immediately logs the increased number
of pilots, the same occurs in reverse when a fleet jumps out and the
faces/names ripple away from local.
In my corp, when we scan down the static losec
hole, the first scout thru holds cloak and FIRST BM’s the return and SECOND
checks local… reports #in-local; system name; #of-jumps to Hi and #of-jumps to
closest trade hub…
Then he is ready to break jump cloak and either
jump back or cloak up and go scouting or whatever. Normally he will recloak and
continue static scouting/data collection… Pull up the Star Map and check the
System History for ship/pod kills, jumps, pilots ‘in space’ and pilots ‘docked
in station’ looking for patterns indicating ganks, camps, fac war, etc.
I find it very interesting that NO ONE has brought
up the System Statistics available in the OV. The #of ships kills; #of pod
kills; #of pilots in space; #of pilots docked; #of jumps, etc., etc. All of
which MUST be the historical data collected from all gates & stations as
pilots ships jump, travel and assplode (PODs too) all of which is captured by multiple
redundant computer systems at each gate & station throughout New Eden
(except in Anoikis)...
I personally live in a hole, so local is meh to me,
but I do feel that it should be altered or modified through a set of skills and
mods that gives them as live in Empire control of local or control of access to
it AND a way to counter being visible on
it...
Ms Penny of Tigerears has brought up what is, I
feel, a very salient point… The Ship’s Transponder (an integral part of the
above postulated technology that handles automatic connections, IFF and
background data transmissions to/from the LCL providing CONCORD with the
ability to handle ‘Traffic Control’ which WOULD be needed at the gates and
stations throughout New Eden… plus, of course, their vaunted and amazing response
times for criminal acts.
And I quote: “Transponder
information couldn't be hidden without eventual Concord involvement, and would
be difficult to hide anyway. Want to dock? You need an active transponder.
What to use a stargate? You need an active transponder. This is how the
list of pilots can be built and maintained in each system. Every ship that
undocks is known; every ship that jumps from one system to another is known and
tracked. The lack of hardware pushing ships to w-space is also how local
doesn't work there.”
This backs up my postulation above as regards the
tech and lore behind the how and why of Local.
And I REALLY like her following postulation so much
that..
again I quote directly: “…maybe this is how local can be successfully transformed.
High-sec has active Concord involvement. The traffic control information is
relayed publicly, for safety and information, so is free to all. Low-sec could
have a delay, maybe updating once every thirty seconds—or maybe having a base
delay of thirty seconds that scales upwards as the security status of the system drops—just because the equipment isn't as high a
standard as in high-sec. Stargates and stations build up a log of all entries
and exits, and ping the log occasionally.”
This is again backed by current lore and the
virtuality we live in…
> 1.0 to .0.5 CONCROD response times follow a pattern
that stipulates a ‘perfect’ level of intel
> 0.6 to 0.9 CONCORD response
times are degraded… noticeably.. as if communications and intel was not as
effective and timely.
> Null… well, all CONCORD knows about null is that you did
something... they are relegated to just keeping records of your bad acts… (your
security status…
> Anoikis, they don’t even know you exist.
All of this is directly tied to
communications and intel. This ties in so closely with my idea’s it’s scary… Go
Ms Penny! Maybe, local should be a direct reflection of CONCORD involvement,
intel gathering, accuracy and response times.
(told ya you weren’t ready…) So WhatinhelldowedonowFFS??...
I dunt know, Ima jus the messenger, I jus points
out the stuff I see… Ima no fix eet…
I have no idea if (1) there is anything to FIX per
se but (B) there are a LOT of good ideas out there and… we have this really
great GAME and it has all this great STUFF innit and it is a BLAST to play and
mess with and talk about and blog about and moan about and bich about and… and…
and… Ima pick a few ideas I have had,
read and like and Ima edit, play with and post for your edification...
‘Local Cloak’ – Poetic Stanziel – “Local
Cloaking - Bringing Mining Back to Lowsec”
The idea is a low slot mod that ‘hides’ you from
local but not Dscan. In other words no change to the Client or server, the
change is based on the module effects.
EDIT:
Personally I REALLY like this one. It makes sense,
it feels right scientifically, it changes the mechanic of “Perfect Local Intel”
to something right between what it is now and “No-Local” as we have in holes.
It adds new elements to both Strategy & Tactics and Gameplay &
Immersion.
I prefer a server change removing local from the
system as a whole and basing it on your ships attributes alone. Your ship would have a ‘Base Neocom Range’
(Comms Range), scaled same as all attributes… shortest for POD, then upscaling
for shuttles, then Noob ships, then Frigs, etc., etc. … hitting the max base range
of 14.35 AU probably at the Cruiser/BC class… same base max range as Dscan but
can be altered/affected by Modules. Reports the same info as now only for ships
that are WITHIN your Comms Range. Additional modules/skills to augment/counter
this.
Module classification: ‘Intelwar Module’; shares
Ewar bonuses.
Augment: (Increase Ships Local Comms Range
& Strength [You See More])
> Low slot mods (+skills): “Neocom Antenna
Multiplexor”: increase Comms range in increments to +100% of base, stacking
& CPU penalties;
> Mid slot mods (+skills): “Neocom Signal
Booster”: significantly increase Comms range to max of +200%, and enhanced
data; IE ship types/pull INFO/range and bearing, fit ONE only w/ High CAP cost;
> No Hi slot Mods for Comms Augmentation.
Counter: (Decrease Ships Local Comms Signal
& Response [You are Harder to See])
> Low slot mods (+skills): “Neocom Signal
Distortion Amplifier”: Passive Jam Comms; jamming strength in increments to
-50% of base and % chance to jam based on ship attributes and skills; stacking
& CPU penalties;
> Mid slot mods (+skills): “Neocom Multiband
Jammer”: Active Jam Comms; jamming strength and % chance to jam based on
ship attributes and skills; significantly increase Comms Jam strength and %
chance to jam to max of -100%; fit ONE only w/ High CAP cost;
> No Hi slot Mods for Comms Jamming.
And, Ima copy my own comment w/ attribute!! Taken
directly (then edited) from a response on Poetics ‘Local Cloak’ post:
The ONLY reason the Cloak works and is BALANCED
in W-space is because there is NO Cyno in W-space. The issue is not cloaks… its
Cynos. But NOBODY wants to talk about how out of balance they are.
Cyno Counter:
I wanna see a “Cyno Jump Disruptor”… Lo/Null only POS Mod, can be
Anchored and Onlined in any Lrg POS in any Lo/Null system. When ON this module
‘disrupts’ any active cyno jump or jump bridge that crosses the system the
module is in. Any and all ships, passing through a system with a “Cyno Jump
Disruptor” online, are forced out of warp back into normal space randomly
(all together w/ Fleet status maintained) ‘somewhere’ in the system roughly
along their line of warp...
There is a one minute reset on ALL the ships
that were forced out of warp… because being FORCED out of a warp tunnel
shuts all computer systems DOWN and it takes at least one minute for them to
reboot plus (…it feels like someone reached up through your anus, out through your
mouth, grabbed the top of your heard… and yanked you head out you ass…) for the
crew AND Capsuleer, it hurts like hell, gives everyone onboard a pounding migraine
and severe grommet pain… and one really weird side effect… a full minute of projectile
diarrhea… (hence the burning ‘grommet’
pain) =\
For a full 60 seconds your whole shitty fleet just drifts, aimless,
non-responsive and stinking in space… inside a system… possibly a hostile
system… full of clean, hostile ships… with clean Combat Probes already in the
air… Ping! Ping! Ping!
Ping!
NOW let’s see how many Titan Fleets or Cap Fleets or even Subcap Fleets wanna risk
jumping across ANY systems not under their control? Imagine the
possibilities!!! Imagine the FUN!!! Imagine the Typhoon of Tears, the Monsoon
of Moaning, the utter and implacable RAGE from CFC and HBC that anyone DARES to
even suggest screwing with the ‘perfectly balanced mechanic’ of Cynos and Jump
Bridges… their private highways through the ether…
OK, ok… that
last part, the CJD, was mainly just for fun and ‘cause my muse wouldn’t effin
let go of my brain for a few… (was funny though…) But really… to sum up:
(1) Local is
not BROKEN, it is, IMHO however unbalanced in favor of the aggressor as it
stands now.
(2) As a game
mechanic and in Lore there is good sound technological basis for the way the
mechanic works ATM.
(3) So we
have a working mechanic with a good basis in tech & lore. Let us focus on
BALANCING it as regards Aggressor vs. Defender while at the same time creating
more immersion, depth and most importantly, ‘control’ for the players through
new Mods & Skills that allows us to modify, IE increase or decrease, our
personal use of, and exposure to and on, the Neocom Local Celestial Link.
There’s gotta be something between this… and Local.
Fly Safe and see you in the Sky =/|)=
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