Monday, July 25, 2016

A Lack of Imagination…

~or “It’s a Sandbox, Not a Theme Park…”

There has been a lot of talk-talk over my years in EVE about “Malaise”, that sense of boredom with and in the game brought on by the lack of Things To Do in EVE Online. It’s even the topic of the recent Blog Banter, BB:77. “Malaise”  And a helluvalot of the ‘why’ and ‘who’s-to-blame’ and especially the ‘how-to-fix-this-sorry-state-of-affairs’ is almost universally centered around (1) CCP’s massive failure as a game company and (B) how EVE needs New, Improved and Amazing ™ PVE.

To all of this I say Bullshit.

If I sound bitter, it’s because I have recently discovered that I am… but I’m a new kind of Bittervet… I am not bitter over any perceived or actual issues with CCP, or any perceived or actual issues with the game…  I am not bitter that when I log on there is nothing all setup and laid out an all hand-holdy waiting for me to do… No, I’m getting daily more and more pissed off at the players who whine that they step into a sandbox and there’s nothing all laid out for them to do… it’s a godsdamned SANDBOX rich and FULL of toys and buckets and sand and shit... As Harrison Ford’s character Quinn in “Six Days Seven Nights” put it so oh well, “It's an island, babe. If you didn't bring it here, you won't find it here.

That resort island btw, like all resort islands, was FULL of things to do. Bikes and bars and scooters and boats and sailboats and surfboards etc., etc., etc. But, if you don’t make the decision to do something, if you don’t make the effort to go ride a bike, sail a boat, surf a wave, find friends, make some enemies… then yeah, you’ll probably get pretty bored too.

Do I mean EVE does not need any PVE? of course not. PVE is in EVE a way to make ISK. Itsa grind, itsa job and it aint the point of the game… And as I have pointed out before and as is extremely well known in the gaming community, no game company can create, code, test and deploy Content at anything approaching the rate at which players can burn though it… nowhere near. Hundreds, even thousands of Devs cannot begin to match the abilities of the hundreds of thousands, even millions of gamers working singly or in small to huge groups to figure out the puzzles crafted for them by those, in comparison, few Devs.

Created PVE is and always will be nothing more than a snack for really good gamers. CCP wanted to avoid that trap. They felt that content created by the players, the endless interaction and reaction between solo players and groups of players in a virtual environment where there was stuff worth fighting over was the way to go. And I for one believe there were spot on then and they are still spot on now.

So where is all this whinging and gnashing of teeth and these juvenile tantrums at and against CCP and their “shitty unfun lackluster boring game” coming from? From players who want to login and have all kinds of fun things all setup and ready for them to do… and I don’t get it. Some of the people involved in all this whining are older players who used to know better… and as a playerbase, we didn’t use to be that way. We used to have imagination… we use to understand that EVE was a bag full of toys… not a board game… EVE is a trampoline, not a chess game, EVE is a swingset, not a Poker match. EVE is a sandbox… full of things to play with. But YOU have to use your imagination, YOU, the player, has to make up the story.

When I was a child, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10… I used to love the Ben Franklin Five and Dime store in my hometown of Kilmarnock VA. Every summer when we got the farm house all spring cleaned and mom and us kids would be out there every weekend, some summers for months on end… my Dad would take us all into town and give us each $5… and we’d go to the Ben Franklin 5&Dime… There was one aisle, the toys aisle… oh Wonder of Wonders!! Oh Frabjous Day!!!  The toy aisle at the 5&Dime was sheer magic to a kid with a King’s Ransom of 5 WHOLE REAL DOLLARS burning in his pocket!!!

You would be amazed in 1968 how far $5 would go in a 5&Dime… And the one thing I always got, every year, was the Big Damn Bag of green plastic toy soldiers! I am not sure how many there were in actuality... I was a kid and it was a ’lot’ to me. But here’s the thing, years later my mother would tell of how I would go out in the morning, 9 or 10ish, and start playing with those toy soldiers around the big old complex root system of the old walnut tree out in front of the house, the one right outside the kitchen window. She would watch me play with them for hours and hours. I would run in for a PB&J and Quik and run back out sammich in and chocolate milk hand… and she had to call me in for dinner… from that tree and those soldiers.

The roots and sand and dirt around that tree and that slowly depleting magic bag of green plastic toy soldiers… and my imagination. I played out sweeping tales in my mind of evil empires and those who pitted themselves against them to fight for what’s right and good in this life with those soldiers. That was all it took back then.

I discovered something else about me… that’s all still takes now, almost. My old plastic toy soldiers have been traded in for shiney pixel spaceships, the old roots and sand and dirt around that tree, now replaced by our POS and the planets, moons, stations and the infinite black reaches of space... the evil empires and the good, replaced by all the players who share this virtual ‘verse with me. But now… now I find I don’t want to play alone anymore… I prefer to have a few friends with me who are willing to play along.

It’s not PVE you are missing… it’s the point of the game that you’re missing. It’s a sandbox. CCP has bags and bags of toys soldiers and cargo containers chock full of matchbox cars and STUFF… it’s not up to them to give you something to DO with all of that…

No, that part is up to you.

Fly reckless and see you in the Sky =/|)=


  1. I completely agree with you but it wouldn't hurt to have some new PVE. I kinda like what they have done with the current Shadow of the Serpent event. They could roll that out as a standard sort of thing. Each day The Scope has a certain amount of contracts to do. I think think there is value in just showing people what there is to do. Especially for new players. Variety is also nice to keep from getting into a rut.

    1. We're calling for more pve amid a huge pve event, and a couple months after drifters and sleepers were released. There, art thou happy?

      Ultimately, what people seem to want is no-risk pve they can consume like popcorn, and that's a problem ...

    2. Tal, Agreed. This is the basis for my bitterness exactly. CCP is hammering away at PVE and people just aren’t satisfied. I am sick of it. PVE is not and never has been the point of playing EVE. But many seem to feel we, well, CCP, needs to WoWify EVE to make it a good game. And that… that is my biggest fear.

    3. @Talvorian: I don't recall anyone asking for Drifters or this event, nor CCP ever discussing them prior to their release.

      CCP used to do this with PvP and results were funny. I wonder who expects PvE players to be happy about the little content being delivered to them when CCP won't bother themselves to ask what do PvErs want.

      In terms of content design, PvE development is completely pre-Incarna; CCP does whatever they envision(?) and then hopes it will stick without actually talking to the potential users of what's being developed.

      That is easily improveable.

    4. Tal can of respond if he wants but... No one ASKED for Drifter Angry... and No one asked for Mission, or mining, or Agents or DED or ANY of EVE's PVE... It is CCPs game and they, just like Blizzard, read the forums, listen and talk to players and "in general" try and come up with PVE that (1) is feasible technically, (2) affordable financially and timewise and (3) fits in the lore of EVE and lastly... (4) trys, as well as is possible, to make the widest variety of PVE players happy.

      N, non one "asked" for the Drifters... n o specifically, but yes... in the talk-talk and meta commentary the Seekers and the Drifters were a real PVE hit... so of course they are going to continue development of an idea they tried that seemed to be working even though YOU did not ask for it. And IMHO I pray to Bob they never do give you or anyone something you specifically ask for... do you really want CCP to set THAT ungodly precedent?? "But! But! But! You gave ANGRY what HE asked for!!" "Why not MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!" No Angry... I pray they are not that stoopid.

      And Excuse me? Pre-Incarna??? Pray tell where did you see Omar? or Upwell? or Seekers amd Drifters in Hisec PRE Incarna??? Simple... you didn't. I'm not even gonna give you a "nice try" for that one man.

      Really REALLY glad you are taking part in the discourse and trying Angry, seriously I am and happy to verbally joust with you I am too... please don't get mad and please don't stop thinking and trying to make your opinion heard and your point clear... keep trying to make it better!

    5. By "pre-Incarna" I emn that it's not customer oriented design.

      When CCP decided to change Sov, what did they did? They asked the community, among many other things. They figured, to the best they could, what did the players want, and what could CCP do so they also got what CCP wanted, and everybody was as happy as possible with the result.

      What they didn't did was to come with a fully developed idea out of the blue, release it with some minor tweaks and wish it would stick.

      No. Yhey asked first, they learned about their customers first. "What do our customers expect to get from using our product?", that was the very first thing they did.

      And yet they aren't doing this for PvE.

      See, while I played, I got a certain impression of what people doing PvE wanted from PvE. And CCP's designs are not according to that. For an instance, one very clear thing was that highsec PvE should have the greatest rewards since it favors the empires and CONCORD. Since CCP hasn't ever asked, well, can YOU assess whether this is a common thought for PvErs? Can you deny it? Nobody knows.

      What we know is that according to CCP, farming pirate BS in a AFKstar in the depths of blue null is worth big ISK whereas risking a shiny Marauder to ganks in highsec is worth quite a lesser reward. Customer oriented design...? Really...?

      Another common trend was that missiosn are perfectly fine... just they're always the same few as no new missions are added. Have you seen CCP add any new mission in the last 5 years? And yet apparently (can you prove? disprove? Does anybody know?) they ARE relevant to certian PvErs. But CCP won't add new missions.

      There is a serious lack of talking...

    6. “By "pre-Incarna" I emn that it's not customer oriented design.” You keep going on and on about how CCP is not asking or engaging the playerbase as regards PVE anymore… where in hell is that coming from? You do know about the EVE Forums right? And EVE Vegas and Fanfest and all the player meetups and the “tables” held at these events, including PVE and NPE tables?? Dude CCP doesn’t have to ask for player opinions… but yes dammit, they do all the time.

      And yes, when they changed SOV they asked… SOV is not PVE. SOV is a set of mechanics limited to some areas of Nullsec and is one of the most important mechanics in the game as it is how ownership of space and systems is managed. PVE is pervasive, it is in every space and system of the game and it is huge… mission, sites, exploration, mining, ratting, etc., etc. Every single player in EVE interacts with PVE every day. And yes, they do ask and they do want our opinions.

      Seriously knock this crap off man… ”And yet they aren't doing this for PvE.” I really don’t care what you and as you have made very clear the very few players you were social with, ”… I got a certain impression of what people doing PvE wanted from PvE. And CCP's designs are not according to that.” CCP is not developing the game in the direction you like is all. And no, I seriously doubt they have ever emailed Angry Onions and ask, “Angry, how can we make you less angry?” and I am quite sure they never will either.

      In the last 2 years more has been said in the meta and by CCP about how PVE, missions/sites/exploration/etc. could ALL use some revamping and improvement than I remember in the 3 years previous. Oh and no new missions since Incarna?? Burner missions, ‘nough said? But in truth the Seekers and Drifters and the themed stuff, like Bloody Omar et al are “missions” of a sort. Or… do you really want CCP to just add a bunch of new plain Jane old “missions” for the Agents to hand out? Really??

      And if you think for one second that ”…so they also got what CCP wanted, and everybody was as happy as possible with the result.” then you really have no idea what’s going on in EVE… hundreds of null players were extremely upset over the Jump changes and SOV changes… hundreds if not thousands and many rage quit over it all. But as always changes also bring opportunities and as we do, the majority of the playerbase adapted and continued to log in and play and find a new way with the new mechanics.

      And I cannot begin to tell you the number of times I have read that the ISK balance in EVE is and always will be “Risk = Reward” based. IE High sec with CONCORD et al = Lowest Risk and so = Lowest Reward, Nullsec (or negative sec Anoikis) = Highest Risk and so = Highest Reward, period. High sec will NEVER have the highest rewards and SHOULD NOT EVER have the highest rewards for any ISK making activity.

      I’m sorry man, but in this case I simply do not care whether or not the risk adverse segment of our playerbase who want a PVE game that protects them from PVP, like this or not. Risk = Reward is one of the absolute basic and MAIN tenets of EVE Online.

      And I, who as you know very well lives in Anoikis, the Deadliest Space in EVE… I can and have made over 1bil ISK in just one night of PVE… and on the risk side I have also lost a 1.5bil ISK Marauder running sites solo in our home hole. Just don’t fly a blinged out Marauder if you don’t want to risk losing it, it’s as simple as that. And yes, that is CCP making customer oriented design decisions for their target customers. Sounds to me like you just may not be in their target group is all.

    7. It all boils down to you enjoying your little niche of EVE and failing to understand how (many more) other people think that the bang for their buck is awful.

      As that's what those PvE people think, and what they do is to leave the game faster than new people comes in.

      Playing PvE leads to lower involvement and easier leaving the game. The reasons are directly attached to what PvE is... a low risk(?), low reward job to pay for the "real thing". And the usual ASSumption is that it's fine this way; it's "good" how those people don't find a place in EVE; and would be veryverybad if those people got their bang for their buck in their terms.

      Accroding to some (wrong) people, EVE doesn't needs that PvE provides a endgame content diferent than PvP endgame, doesn't needs that people feel rewarded for PvE without any pewpew, and EVE is doing great without those people.

      But for the dwindling PCU, the dwindling blogosphere, the dwindling community involvement (name 5 CSM 11 members without thinking, or ask CCP Leloo how the "your own segment in the o7 Show" thing fared) and all the little details which you call "change" and I call "a brick wall in the fast lane".

      In many ways we will never agree on anything but a few things. EVE is a great game and it lites us with a passion. Our love for EVE is deep and sincere, but yours is blinded with satisfaction and enjoyment and mine is tainted with disappointment and despair.

      And yet the love is real. I want the best for EVE. Yet that is not what is going on at the moment IMO, and there is no reason why IMO.

    8. Angry, I’m not going to argue with you anymore… it’s a waste of time, effort and even a waste of recycled electrons, and it’s all just bringing me down… I’m tired of it and you are right. You need to read what you wrote and really really think about it man… ”In many ways we will never agree on anything but a few things. EVE is a great game and it lites us with a passion. Our love for EVE is deep and sincere, but yours is blinded with satisfaction and enjoyment and mine is tainted with disappointment and despair.”

      “Our love for EVE is deep and sincere, but yours is blinded with satisfaction and enjoyment and mine is tainted with disappointment and despair.”

      ”….but yours is blinded with satisfaction and enjoyment…”

      Blinded by satisfaction and enjoyment?
      Blinded… REALLY??

      “Blinded” to what? blinded to your unhappiness? to your discontent? These are things you choose to be… ask yourself simply, why is it that we are playing the SAME GAME in the same sandbox with the same rules and toys and mechanics yet I enjoy it and you do not. We are playing at different place in the same sandbox… I am happily making castles that keep getting knocked down, and I just grab my bucket and start in again… while you are just sitting there crying ‘cause the sand is gritty and some mean kid knocked yours over.

      I like you am no L33T PVPer… check my KB… I SUCK at PVP but I CHOOSE to enjoy the game as it is… The only real difference between you and me man…

      is that you choose not to.

    9. Guess this is just a stalemate. Yet another, actually.

      Some people think that the solution to EVE is to do more of what EVE does right.

      Some people think that the solution to EVE is to do right what EVE does wrong.

      I just can't convince people that a) some thinga are wrong, b) they could be done right and c) they must be done right else EVE will be in trouble.

      Some people say I have a problem since I don't fit with EVE. IMO, EVE haves a problem with the people who don't fit with it.

      Some of those people could fit with EVE and that would expand its niche and its longevity.

      The roadblocks are mental, not systemic. EVE could change and fit some of those people without harm... actually would reap the benefits of a larger platyer base.

      Yet another idea (being creative is like this, reality is surrounded by roads not taken).

      Let's say a player owned strucutre with only three functions:

      - docking
      - storage
      - customization

      It can't be destroyed and players can ony build one per account. It is restricted to highsec space and is dependant on security status and faction standings. Also it will despawn whenever the account lapses, and a "storage fee" will be charged in advance to cover for that despawn. To spawn it again upon reactivation fo the account, the "storage fee" must be paid again.

      Since that strcuture (let's call it a "space cottage") only allows to dock and store, it is neutral to PvP. Exactly as a NPC station, but without trading, offices, bounty hunting... no means to earn a single ISK with it. 100% cosmetic. But then, it is customizable. People can buy SKINs and "custom sets" (3D structural addons) for it. Some with ISK, manufacuted by other players. Some for AUR, sold directly by CCP. Some can be bought for AUR and then sold for ISK. Et cetera.

      That structure, that "space cottage", is relased along with Citadels. Developing them haves a cost, and Citadels are 20% less "awesome", but with its release CCP provides all the misfit masses with something to throw their money (virtual and real) into. Makes them feel a part of the Citadel expansion. PvPrs just see nothing of note. Just another undestructable structure, and one which is a net ISK sink since it can't generate income.

      But to the EVE misfits, it would be a thing. A goal to grind for and a way to feel like they're a part of EVE. An investment into the game and a footprint of their gameplay. Something to stay susbcribed longer for, specially if "custom sets" were added periodically since launch.

      CCP losses nothing. PvP loses nothing. And they both enjoy higher retention of more misfits paying to own a virtual doll house... even without interiors!

      But concepts like this "space cottage"lie behind a mental roadblock.

      A castle that can't be stomped over?


      Speculation on roads not taken aside, we know CCP's way. "Build your dreams, wreck their dreams". And in July 2016, average PCU for the month is 1,000 people below July 2015.

      I think of them as gone through one of the many roads not taken.

      Choice is unavoidable, but death of a system is not. EVE is not a living being. Is something made by human. It can be kept "alive" afer it "grows old". Just as with every system, there is a point beyond which what made it succeed, will also destroy it.

      Change is necessary to heal the damage of change. ;)

    10. ”Some people think that the solution to EVE is to do more of what EVE does right. ”

      Yup, that’s right. And you know what?
      Some people think that the way to play poker is by the rules of poker.
      Some people think that the way to play chess is by the rules of chess.
      Some people think that the way to play any game is by the rules of that game…

      You want to change the basic rules of the game.

      In all the back-n-forth here you have offered 2 options you see to make PVE better in EVE. And both have only one thing in common…
      Your tax rebate tokens idea… “So a player who would rather not pay any taxes to someone whose only merit is to be a PvPer, can avoid it by playing his way.”
      Your space cottage idea above, “can't be destroyed” “and is neutral to PvP”…
      The thing they both have in common is you asking CCP to make changes to the game so you can AVOID PVP… and that ain’t gonna happen.

      In poker, at the end of each hand one person gets the pot, and the rest lose whatever they put in.
      In chess when a piece falls, it’s gone.
      EVE is a PVP game. And you are still sitting there, in the sand… crying that the bullies are ALLOWED to kick over your sandcastle.

      This is not a stalemate between us Angry, you are asking for something that is simply not going to happen.

    11. Stalemate. In my opinion EVE is in trouble because it is only a PvP game. And you say "Yes, it's only a PvP game and thus it will never change". Thus it will be in trouble, which you don't want to read, and yet is exactly what's going on.... and we could go on back and forth in a hundred different ways, and even then I still would have more crazy ideas like the ones I've already forwarded here. In deliberate denial that EVE, after all, is only a PvP game and will die as that.

      I won't steal more of your time, play EVE and have fun. I am having it with World of Warships... as I said, I've done PvP in every online game I've played but EVE.

  2. And I agree completely with you. Surprise, surprise. And as you pointed out CCP is doing just that. The themed events are positive examples of CCP's ongoing efforts to give us good interesting jobs to do. I believe this will be an ongoing thing, or they will do something else.

    My contention is simply that PVE is not the "end game" activity of EVE... One must set goals and have objectives, even simple ones, but my point is that it is not up to CCP to make the game fun for each of us, that is up to us ourselves, it's up to the players... always has been.

    But yea... new improved PVE is necessary and valuable (ISK making) and always a fun diversion and well worth every penny of Dev time CCP puts into it. But it is not the point of the game.

  3. Are you getting a bit intolerant there in your old age Tur? I too spent years outside playing with plastic army men in my youth, with elaborate trench systems and bunkers, defending off attacks from Star Wars figurines.

    How many years did you play with them though - 3, 4, 5 years? After interacting with PVE in EVE for almost 10 years now, I appreciate when CCP gives us something different to try.

    As an aside, whatever happened to your army men? I shot all mine to bits with a slug gun. Kind of sad I didn’t have any to hand down to my kids. They have some - but they only ever got a few hours entertainment out of them. Too easy getting entertainment through screens now.

    1. LOL not intolerant, so much as just tired my friend… bone tired of the whining and lambasting of CCP and all the hard work they have done creating something no one has ever done before… a persistent sandbox SciFi space sim of the magnitude of EVE Online, much less do it as well and (everyone agrees on this part at least) as beautifully as they have.

      Granted Elite Dangerous (Star Citizen is not released yet) is extremely good, but (1) while it does have “to a degree Open PVP” (I quote []: “…many actions which would be considered griefing in other multiplayer games are generally permitted here, so long as a valid roleplaying reason is attached. Examples include [but are not limited to] stealing from other players, extortion, and blocking off star systems via blockade or similar means.”) However, some actions, like "mob mentality" persecution, abusing exploits [such as "combat logging"] and cursing are still not allowed, and could eventually result in a shadow ban, meaning to lose access to the main server.) Even with all of this ED is far more PVE focused than EVE, even to the point of having an online-only single player mode… talk about safe (and boring!) and (B) the version that rivals EVE graphically was released on 12/16/14 less than 2 years ago.

      Now I’m not a mindless fanboy and I’m not drunk on the Koolaid, and CCP has made some serious mistakes… really serious ones. But NO ONE has ever done what they are trying to do before, so what do you expect? Hindsight is always 20-20. That said… CCP has also brought us 13+ YEARS of a consistently AMAZINGLY beautiful shared verse with literally thousands of things to make and play with and hundreds of things to DO… if we just use our imaginations.

      And yes, as a child my attention span was limited to few years with my plastic friends… same was true for the assortment of G.I. Joes I went through. But, I started with my 1st pellet gun at I at 9 and have been involved in firearms both as a hobby and professionally ever since… started hunting with my dad at 9, gunsmithing… shortened the barrel (filed, crowned and blued the new muzzel) and made a wood pistol grip for my first pellet gun at 12. In my 20’s I was a salesman doing gunshows up and down the east coast, I was a self-defense trainer, gunsmith and store manager of 2 gunshops, worked as a PI for 2 years, carried and trained others in gun handling, carry and self-defense and I have taken part in competitive shooting in all the 45 years since. And I still like ‘action figures’… I have 2 Quake characters and a HALO Masterchief on my PC desk today… =]

      Please understand, if you read through my comment replies you will see that I am ALL FOR good immersive and interesting PVE in EVE. I would much rather grind something fun for my ISK than grind for grindings sake, my point is simply that PVE is not the End Game of EVE is all and, as Tal pointed out, CCP IS working hard to give us New Improved PVE… so my issue is why are so many (you are not numbered among these BTW) whining so much? Because they are sitting back and asking to be spoon fed their fun and in EVE that aint how it’s done is all.

  4. Tornike, I guess it’s a matter of what you joined the game looking for. I’d never heard of EVE before my son told me about it. I joined because he and his bestmate had been playing for a year already, so my initial perception of what to expect was based on what they told me about the game. I was looking to (1) be in closer touch with my sons while they were in the real sandbox (Iraq while on deployment in Op DS) and (B) fly spaceships in a deep, immersive SciFi sim. It was in the end, exactly what I expected. I did not see it as a ‘game’ I was going to play solo or against a computer system, but as a virtual reality I was going to share with other people and against other people. That was my expectation.

    I have felt for years that this, EVE being a PVP Sim more than a PVE Game, is the primary reason we have had at best approx. 500k, to today’s approx. 300k accounts while WoW has swung between 10 to 8mil. accounts. EVE is not really a game if you think about it. It’s far more a Sim in how it is played. And it is hard, and deep and it takes time and a real investment by the player.

    The PVE aspects of EVE are very much a game, especially things like Exploration with actual mini-game in the hacking mechanic. But the part that gets us written up in the Wall Street Journal are the Sim aspects… the Grand Scale PVP, the “simulated” Wars and the huge losses of virtual stuff (when one uses the PLEX Value Index PLEX having both RW and Ingame monetary values which can be used as an index for RW dollar values for ingame assets).

    I cannot agree with you more that PVE needs to be GOOD but also needs to somehow lead new players into the Sim aspects of the game. To involve players in interacting with other players and I DO NOT mean by leading them into PVP traps or ganks or to funnel newbies into the gunsights of PVP players. No… it needs to lead you into the social aspects of the game. How working together, in EVE as in the RW, makes you stronger and better able to create and hold your own. I too like the idea of using NPCs in a more co-dependent ways such as players escorting NPC convoys, or NPC Mercs newbies could afford who would assist them if attacked by players.

  5. I was poor as a child. So poor that my parents couldn't afford buying many toys. But oh boy: I had one toy I loved with a passion. A toy so influential that I've been playing the same game all of my life, even as an adult.

    A construction set. A replica, no TM breach intended, of LEGO blocks. With hundreds and hundreds of sets, whose blocks could be combined and reassembled into literally anything I could imagine. I owed a few set boxes. And I've been always a creative person, the kind who doesn't thinks about having ideas, just haves ideas.

    So I loved creating things. The challenge of how to use the limited blocks, to achieve the desired result. Figuring the way, visualizing the blocks and how to assemble them, and accounting whether I had enough blocks of the required types, was funnier than actually assembling the thing.

    And I've been playing the same game since then. Even with videogames.

    Learn the mechanics aka The blocks. Then assemble them. Then reassemble them. Then reassemble them. Over and over, in every possible combination allowed by the game.

    No wonder that my favorite game ever is Civilization. The blocks are limited, but the combinations... woaah.

    Enter EVE. The blocks... woaah. Hundreds of ships. Thousands of modules. Thousands of systems. And the mechanics for everything and the lore and the videos and... Well, what POTENTIAL! What could be done with all those blocks! The possibilities man, the... oh wait. Oh, oh, OH, WAIT!!

    It's only about the PvP. Shoot another player while he shoots you. If you lose, you can't play until you rebuild your ship, which requires ISK, which you must grind... And hey: I'm terrible at PvP.

    But look at the game! The ships! The systems! The mechanics! Surely MUST be a way to play even if you're a natural born PvP loser... right? No. What is not PvP, is just a grind to pay for the PvP.

    But wait! It's 2010 and they're talking about avatars! Woaah! The possibilities! (To NOT shoot people in stations) Err, no. 'Trainwreck' is not even close to describe it.

    But wait again! PvE is untouched! It's bloody midnbogging grind! Surely CCP could turn it into new mechanics, new blocks, so people who are terrible at pewpew can do PvE and ascend their own paths to glory... no.

    They don't even think there's a need to do anything with PvE, let alone talk to the players about it, what do they want, why do they PvE...

    People don't even get how EVE is missing hundreds of new blocks and what kind of stuff could be built with them. Every NPC could be a chance to greatness. Every system a little power to talk to. A thousand blank pages to write on, a thousand stories to be your own master, a true Demigod and not just a glorified vandal with a mile-long spaceship...

    EVE, we're told, is a sandbox. Just the tools are what they are and either you play by CCP's design or you're fucked up. No matter how many ideas you can think, what INEMNSE potential you see in the sanbox, the ones developing new blocks are just happy to have figured /just/ a grind-and-pewpew sandbox.


    Yeah, unimaginative me... trying to EXPAND the Sandbox with Incarna or durign the psot-Incarna turmoil... Until Rubicon was introduced to us. More stuff to PvP for and about. PvE was not even mentioned. So after the Rubicon letter, I considered what my options where. And then I won EVE.

    The potential still is there. EVE /could/ be the ultimate scifi simulation. But it's just that, a potential.

    And in my angry opinions, it's being wasted for no reason.

    1. Angry, I get it, you like creating… cool, but Lego’s doesn’t have PVP (unless you have an older brother or something…). I know, my kids have a HUGE box of the things… I love making things out of them (and was praying Lego would give us a Rifter model even…) and I HATE with a white hot hate stepping on them in the pitch dark half awake at night…

      As far as ” Surely MUST be a way to play even if you're a natural born PvP loser... right? No. What is not PvP, is just a grind to pay for the PvP.” There is, but you don’t want to do it. Accept that PVE is mainly a way to make ISK and then set a goal to make more ISK than anyone else within the framework of Your Shit in Space is ALWAYS AT RISK. You do NOOT have to be a PVPer to play EVE… just ask Hermit. A shining example of how to play EVE as a solo and PVE focused game.

      And the Dream that was Icarna, WiS, handled correctly would have been just as risk laden as FiS… and PVE would still have been a way to make ISK to afford better armor and weapons. But DAMN if I would not have thrown myself into to headfirst screaming in joy the whole way!

      Angry, yer getting angry again… careful. Stop the BS man… ” They don't even think there's a need to do anything with PvE, let alone talk to the players about it, what do they want, why do they PvE...” that’s the BS and you know it. We have already talked about this, there is new PVE, they are working on it, it is happening… you just don’t LIKE it… it’s not the PVE YOU want.

      You really just need to accept that CCP is developing EVE to the vision they have and not to yours. If there are parts you don’t like, work to mitigate your risks, and focus on the building and creating side of things, accept the setbacks and learn from them. I have NEVER said YOU should PVP in order to play EVE. Do NOT put words in my mouth man… ever.

      What I said was USE your imagination to play in the sandbox the way you want to but ACCEPT that there are no referees and no one (outside of CONCORD) is going to curb the mean kids… IE it’s dangerous out there, don’t put all your eggs in one basket, put the basket in a canoe and paddle across the lake in a thunderstorm… and there is ALWAYS a thunderstorm in EVE. PVP is, for PVE players like weather… it simply is, learn to cope.

      Or go play something else and stop whining.


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